Looking to get started

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Del Gue
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Looking to get started

Post by Del Gue » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:41 am

Howdy. Back in the day me and a few friends used to shoot some very informal silhouette contests...just a few friends shooting for fun, nothing official, I'm sure a few rules got bent. I was using my first .22, a Browning T-bolt with an old Redfield 10x scope with target turrets. The range closed, and I shot some formal .22 bench rest matches for a few years with a Winchester 52 and then a Remington 40x. I later sold those rifles and haven't done any shooting for a dozen years or so. I am looking to get set up to do some shooting now and after I retire in 4 years.

I was watching some videos on youtube put out by the Long Range Shooters of Utah. The 22 precision stuff looked interesting. Then I came across this website yesterday and remembered those old informal silhouette shoots we had. Silhouette shooting seems to be very practical, as it seems to be good practice for hunting, too.

I shoot left-handed. The two main options appear to be an Anschutz 1416 or a CZ 452. The Anschutz 17xx series seems to be very highly recommended, but only the 1416 is available now, plus the occasional rumblings I hear about ejection probs has me leery. I'm disinclined to pay that kind of money for a flippin' rifle that doesn't even eject properly.

So I'm thinking I'll get the CZ 452 and plan on a Yodave trigger mod for it. I watched someone do it on YouTube and it looks like I could handle it. A few weeks ago I had considered a Sightron SIII in 10-50x60, but after reading this board yesterday evening, I see that would be a poor choice. So then I figured a Sightron SII Big Sky Silhouette, but then saw they were discontinued. Fixed power Leupolds and Weavers were also recommended in the 25x range, but my head would probably explode using a fixed power that high just starting out. Consequently, it looks like a Leupold VX-3i in 6.5-20x40 would maybe be my best choice?

Am I good so far?

What kind of rings would you mount that Leupold using?

I'm info gathering now. I'm heading to Montana on vacation the 30th of this month to get away from this Florida heat and trying to avoid unnecessary expenditures until I get back, and am riding the fence on whether to order a 452 leftie now or wait until after I get back. Are they currently still being made, or is just what is remaining out there being sold off?

Thank you for your patience and whatever help you can give me. I did a lot of reading here last night and y'all seem like a real good bunch, very knowledgeable but with a good sense of humor at the same time.

Many thanks.
Del

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dustinflint
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by dustinflint » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:35 am

Del Gue wrote:Silhouette shooting seems to be very practical, as it seems to be good practice for hunting, too.
First, Silhouette shooting is not "practice for hunting." It was never meant to be "practice for hunting" and will never be "practice for hunting." Silhouette is competition shooting and, as you'll soon find out, competitive shooting is on a completely different planet than shooting while hunting. Any goober with a gun can ambush a deer and hit it at 75 yards with a 7mm mag or whatever - and while Jerry Tureau will tell you that he regularly hits squirrels on the dead run in the head at 150 yards with a 50X scoped .22, squirrel hunting and silhouette are two completely different things. That said, if you are even a remotely decent silhouette shooter, you'll be a great marksman in the field - so no more excuses for missing a deer.

Now that that's out of the way...
Del Gue wrote:I shoot left-handed. The two main options appear to be an Anschutz 1416 or a CZ 452. The Anschutz 17xx series seems to be very highly recommended, but only the 1416 is available now, plus the occasional rumblings I hear about ejection probs has me leery. I'm disinclined to pay that kind of money for a flippin' rifle that doesn't even eject properly.
The rifle that you start off with is completely up to you but the two you're considering are both excellent. I will almost guarantee that if you stick with silhouette you will end up with an Anschutz 17xx rifle so if you want to save some time and you have the money, you can go ahead and buy one or you can get something a little less expensive to get started. I started with a CZ 452 and I tell most new shooters to start there but there are several other rifles, including the 1416, that are great starting places. Since you are already considering those, go with one of those or just go ahead and drop the $$$ on an Anschutz 1712 - you'll love it.

As for your unfortunate wrong-handedness - there are several good left-handed shooters that regularly post here. Pat Steiger (psteiger) is left handed and a true rifle EXPERT. You don't want to be seen in public with him, but you could do a lot worse than to get his advice on lefty rifles.
Del Gue wrote: So then I figured a Sightron SII Big Sky Silhouette, but then saw they were discontinued. Fixed power Leupolds and Weavers were also recommended in the 25x range, but my head would probably explode using a fixed power that high just starting out. Consequently, it looks like a Leupold VX-3i in 6.5-20x40 would maybe be my best choice?
Your head won't explode. I regularly see variable powered scopes recommended to new shooters but I disagree with that advice. I say start at about 24x-25x and get used to it and stick with it. As you get better, you're going to want to move up in magnification, probably ending up at about 25X. I don't see any reason in getting used to different magnifications then having to readjust as you go every time you move up. If you buy a Leupold FX or a Sightron or Weaver with a dot reticle, you'll have that scope forever and never have to replace it. I say start there.
Del Gue wrote: What kind of rings would you mount that Leupold using?
Start with some BKLs. You'll have to eventually decide what scope height you like which will require trying different height rings but BKL high rings are a good place to start.
Del Gue wrote: riding the fence on whether to order a 452 leftie now or wait until after I get back. Are they currently still being made, or is just what is remaining out there being sold off?
I don't know the answer to that question but a WTB ad in the marketplace might net you just what you want in a rifle that already has the trigger-work done. Silhouette shooters are a good bunch to buy used rifles from; they are usually very well taken care of. I don't think I've ever bought a brand new rifle for shooting silhouette.

Good luck and welcome!

Dustin

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by SqHunter » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:26 pm

Not sure why "target shooters" have to distance themselves so greatly from hunting. Such elitism is very sad and untimely too, considering we need to be recruiting shooters rather than insulting them and driving them away.

Anyway, Mr. Del Gue, silhouette will help with shouldering the rifle, follow through, breathing, and trigger control. All of those things are useful in any shooting discipline, including hunting. It also teaches you to handle the rifle "between the hands" and to mount it consistently.

My family and I use silhouette in the spring to tune up for fall hunting season. We still hunt through heavy timber and small field edges for grey squirrels, whitetail, and hogs. The majority of our game is harvested from either offhand or kneeling, positions which both benefit directly from silhouette carry over. The sport has improved our field performance and I believe it will improve yours as well.

Good luck!

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by SqHunter » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:31 pm

oops, I forgot to mention that if you are ever in the TN area you are welcome to stop by and shoot with us. NRA matches are in Chattanooga, but there are informal matches across the state.

See you on the range!

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by dustinflint » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:42 pm

I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. It's just that that's the second or third time lately that I've heard that "silhouette is practice for hunting" and I think that marginalizes the sport. I certainly have nothing against hunting; I've been hunting all my life. Also, if "practicing for hunting" gets people out shooting silhouette, I'm all for it and as I said before, it will certainly make a hunter a better shot in the field.

Dustin

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by dustinflint » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:51 pm

I went back and read my reply and it reads a lot more aggressive and pompous-sounding than it did in my head when I was writing it. i apologize for sounding like a jackass.

Dustin

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Doodaddy » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:07 pm

Dustin made several good points. All I will say is that if you go the route of CZ, I would do the 455 before the 452. This gives you the option of quality drop in barrels like the Lilja http://riflebarrels.com/shop/drop-in-ba ... on-barrel/ and a two stage trigger (when it's not sold out) https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/0 ... r-Assembly.

I agree with Dustin and say if this is something you know you will do for a while, do it right the first time, but I do know that sometimes people want to dip their toes in the water first. A Lilja CZ455 with Mr. Fly trigger is about as budget as it gets for what is really suited for silhouette.
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by glen ring » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Del Gue
You sound like a very practical man and you and I are probably about the same age.
There certainly is a very competitive avenue to any shooting sport but I've always been a guy that can use the things I learn in shooting sports and apply them to to hunting.

I am primarily a hunter. I hunt something almost every day and keep my .22 near the back door for pest control.
My .22 is a Kimber I bought many years ago and have shot MANY animals, but I have only recently took up Rifle silhouette with it.

Silhouette makes me a more disciplined and more accurate shooter when I get ready to kill something. That's my Primary purpose in shooting the sport...plus it's really a lot of fun!

The number of hunters that would benefit and love competitive shooting is about 15 MILLION. That's a great untapped number that would help the cause tremendously and why I push for SO many people to come shoot their hunting rifles/shotguns in competition.

I'm with SQHunter...it will help you make that shot when you hunt.

I am not, nor have I ever been against any form of competitive shooting .

I was an IPSC, Action pistol "peacock" back in the 80's and I had expensive custom guns, but I sold all of them and started competing with the stock guns and gear I carried everyday. Did I give up a few points by shooting my everyday gear in lieu of my fancy, custom expensive stuff ? Maybe, but the practical return of being VERY familiar with that gear made me a better hunter and it was worth it.

P.S. Dustin Flint is not an ass..although I agree with him some of his posts may sound like it. He is a young guy deeply involved with the competitive side of silhouette and it is a VERY challenging sport..but new shooters and hunters, especially us with a limited budget, need to realize the fun side and the practical side of silhouette shooting and THAT goal is my passion.

Now shoot, have fun and if you ever see a middle aged couple at a match that are cutting up , laughing,
and having a good time, it's just my wife and I so Please introduce yourself.
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Del Gue
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Del Gue » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:59 pm

Dustin,
No worries. I didn't mean to demean the discipline in any fashion. You said what I was trying to say, "...if you are even a remotely decent silhouette shooter, you'll be a great marksman in the field." I'm a decent field shot. Just lookin' for a way to shoot all year.

Main problem, folks, is shooting lefty kinda limits my choices to the Anschutz 1416 or the CZ 452. There are no 455 lefties that I am aware of. The only other option that I am aware of is a 10/22, but I'm disinclined to go that route. I figure the CZ 452 is an adequate starter rifle, and it can buy me time to see if Anschutz comes out with a 17xx model in lefty. Besides, I expect it will take a good while, if ever, for my skills to surpass the ability of the 452.

Glen,
I turned 59 last month. I'm getting old and tired, like Bone Daddy, my Airedale. I carry every day, partly due to where I live, and partly for job-related reasons. And for what it's worth, I agree with you...Dustin is NOT an ass!!! Passion for one's sport is not a fault! I like predator calling. I don't always shoot everything I call in, sometimes I just look at it and smile. It is interesting, and it makes me happy! There's something to be said for that!

Many thanks for your replies. And I'm considering just going to the 1416 to start with. I'll have to ponder and study more.

Del

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by glen ring » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:58 pm

Del Gue

We're about the same speed.
I give some animals a pass. I " count coup " on them. Unless they're after my chickens.
I lost my 11 year old Airedale 6 weeks ago.

If you're ever driving through Oklahoma, give me a shout. We have a 100 yard rifle range here at the house and we'll treat you like company.
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Del Gue » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:40 pm

Glen,

Thanks for the invite! If I get out that way I'll be sure to pass by.

In 1987 I had an event happen that changed the way I look at death and killing. I'll still shoot a deer or an elk, but the smaller critters I'm more inclined to like than to kill. Shooting them with a camera is just as fulfilling.

I'm sorry you lost your Airedale, my friend. Bone Daddy is around 10 or 11 years old. He may well be gone by this time next year. He is a 'slick' Airedale that I went out to SE Arizona to get from a guy named John-Henry. He was one of The Coyote Gods. Bone Daddy has been a most excellent dog in all respects. I'm kicking around whether to get another Airedale or a Welsh Terrier for my next dog, since I'll have him into retirement and do a little traveling with him. The smaller Welsh might travel better, I'm thinkin', although I appreciate a dog that can take care of himself. Before I got Bone Daddy, I had 3 successive Dobies. They were all great dogs.

I plan on moving to Montana in 2021 after I retire in 2020. I might slide into Oklahoma some spring and do a little storm chasing. I've always wanted to do that. Maybe visit the severe storm prediction center in Norman.

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by glen ring » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:04 pm

We have had Lakeland terriers, a couple of Airedales and currently have a Fox terrier. All good dogs.

I have a bud that retired with me and is now a full time storm chaser for Channel 9. His name is Alan Broerse and is a great guy. I'll hook you up with him this spring. He'll make you promise not to squeal while he's on the air !!

We all have those moments and I also feed WAY more than most. Birds, squirrels and right now lots of hummingbirds.

Life has different chapters and we all adapt....BUT I still get VERY competitive sometimes .

Have a good one. I'm taking my favorite Smith and Wesson for a walk down a dead end , gravel road.
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Del Gue » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:19 pm

Sounds like your bud has a fun and interesting job!

I get competitive playing my tank game. It's called World of Tanks. I've been playin' about 3 years now, have played about 49k battles. I'm too aggressive a fair amount of the time, and it gets me killed. The fact that I prefer tank destroyers because they inflict more damage doesn't help, because most of them are fixed casement TD's, so I have to turn the whole tank to bring the gun to bear.

I carry a Glock 32, but earlier this year purchased a 9mm S & W Shield. I'll prolly go ahead and the get the .45 ACP version before spring.

I gotta go meet an amigo who is in town and catch up over milkshakes. Take care, my friend. Enjoy your walk!

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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Doodaddy » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:03 am

Del Gue wrote:There are no 455 lefties that I am aware of. The only other option that I am aware of is a 10/22, but I'm disinclined to go that route.
It can be done with a 10/22. In fact Troy Lawton even shot a 40/40 with one. Easy barrel options, bolt options, receiver options, etc etc. It does require a bit of a different follow through with your shots due to cycling of the bolt, but it can be done. A Kidd 2 stage trigger will also make matters a bit easier shooting. I recently built one for silhouette to scratch an itch and am almost done working with Mike Turner with the silhouette prototype stock.

Image

I'm not discouraging you from any option, just trying to give you some options/perspective too!
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Re: Looking to get started

Post by Del Gue » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:05 am

Holy cow, Doodaddy! That is one fine looking rifle you have there. The Ruger 10/22 tactical with the Hogue stock is on my list of things to get, but it will just be a fun gun, not a comp gun. Clearly 10/22's, if they are heavily modified, can be and are employed.

You must tell us how it shoots!

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