What kind of hold do you use?

[Jetmugg]

As a newbie, I have been experimenting with different holding styles during some dry-fire practice sessions. A combination of a split-fingered hold coupled with resting the trigger guard on the heel of my left palm seems to be the most comfortable for me, but it might not be the most steady hold available. I'm looking for any suggestions that you guys might be willing to share.

I can already predict that some people will say something like "try different holds and see what works for you", which is good advice, but I'd like to have a few of the most favored holds to try out.

I'm headed to my second match this coming weekend, and I'd like to improve over my first-ever match scores, with an eye towards continuous improvement.

Thanks,

Steve M.

[nomad]

IMO, as long as your left arm (right handed shooter) is well into the body, your forearm is fairly vertical and your wrist is straight, it doesn't seem to matter all that much how you attach yourself to the front of the rifle...except that you probably shouldn't fight what your body style dictates. (Long, lanky types seem to do well with the gun high on the knuckles or fingertips. Short people like me seem to get better results with the gun well down into the hand. There is no hard and fast rule!)

(Keep in mind that I'm a AA shooter and NOBODY worries about what scores I'm turning in at matches!) lol

[Jason]

I use split finger hold with a natural point of aim stance. I tried every different hold I could think of and then every one I saw at matches or in pictures of matches. I even tried Dave's contortionist "twist into it" thing, but it wasn't for me. I did originally steal his version of the split finger hold from him, though, and do much better with it than I did off the knuckles like I was shooting before. I still shoot with a little different split finger hold, but it's very close to the one I learned from Dave. It's just what has felt comfortable to me and was steadiest when shooting. I still experiment with little changes in my hold and stance, though. I'm slowly moving up in scores, and that's how I like it. I started out in A class a little over a year and a half ago, and I just moved up to AAA class in hunter rifle at my last match. It might be better to listen to the Master class shooters than newbies like me.

On a side note, I'm not sure moving up to AAA class this close to Pe Ell was a good idea. I don't think my own personal ethics would let me sandbag, but I'm just gonna get stomped on by everyone in the class at Pe Ell now.

[mordecai]

Jason - good to hear from you. You sound like you're progressing very well!!! My scores have sorta stagnated since last year - I'm not practicing near as much as I would like. You're going to kill me this year at Conard.

As for hold, I've somewhat settled on a palm-rest with the first and second finger slightly under the stock.

My other somewhat successful hold is bridging the thumb under the trigger guard and the first two fingers forward under the stock, but I typically only use this with very light-weight, skinny hunter rifles. I don't think it's quite as solid of a hold, but the light-weight guns seem to pick up my wiggles more when I try to palm-rest it.

Like Jason said, you're getting advice from a newbie here - you should squeeze something out of a Master if you want the real goods - which is the reason for this site and forum!

[Jason]

Jason - good to hear from you. You sound like you're progressing very well!!! My scores have sorta stagnated since last year - I'm not practicing near as much as I would like. You're going to kill me this year at Conard.

I wouldn't bet on it. When I moved up to AAA, I pretty much gave up on winning anything at the Conard Cup. I went ahead and grabbed a stock from a CZ 452 Silhouette and opened the barrel channel up on it so I could mount my Varmint barreled action into it. It's better, but not great, and it's a fairly major change so I expect my scores to drop for a while. I just wanted something to fix up the CZ a little while I save for a better rifle. I'm trying to get my father-in-law into silhouette shooting more seriously, so there's a good chance I'll even put the Timney trigger in it when they get it into production and then "long-term loan" the gun to him after I get a better one, as it will be about as good as a CZ can get for silhouette shooting by that point.

[dwl]

Jett;

There are a couple of holds I don't see mentioned:

1. palm up, fingers right
2. palm up, fingers left
3. Vee hold between thumb and fingers.

I use the last because my oaf mitts are too stiff for split finger or finger tip holds. I stoled the idea from an Army Reserve champion shooter though I've seen this one on the shooting line in silhouette.

My offhand thumb is on one side of the stock, my fingers on the other and the trigger guard rides in the groove in the base of the palm. Very stable for me. You'll find the best for yourself.

Hey, Jason,

You're "gonna get stomped on by everyone in the class at Pe Ell!"

Now that you've moved me up one place, I need to find out who else to psych out so I can convince them too. At the state match last summer I told my friend, a Master Class shooter, that he'd miss the first shot and I, a AA shooter, wouldn't. Poor guy listened to it and missed his first shot! Boy was he mad. Afterward I appologized and told him that believing he couldn't was his weakness.

When we get to Conard show Jet and me how to shoot 30 or 40 perfect shots and surprise the AAA class.

dwl

[dave imas]

step back from the trees for a moment boys... see the whole forest. as best we can we are attempting to remove the usage of muscles to support your rifle. We want to use as much of our infrastructure (bone and cartilage) to support our rifle. as long as we are able to do that, exactly how we hold our forward hand isn't that important...

you can't really focus on one aspect and expect to see marked improvement. one has to take a holistic view of the process. head position, back position, hips, feet, forward arm, trigger hand, trigger finger, trigger arm...

very simplistically, your back is going to control (or not) horizontal movement and your hips and forward arm will control vertical movement. and that is way too simplistic.

and you have to have a rifle that allows the greatest amount of functional accuracy. well balanced, right cheek piece for you, right scope elevation for you...

i'm not saying the discussion isn't worth having, just suggesting there is far more to it than whether your fingers are split or where your thumb is.
dave
(then once you get that down, if you don't follow thru, none of it really matters)

[nomad]

David,

Good point.

I've heard about this 'follow through' stuff. There are even supposed to be people who can get their eyes open again so fast after they shoot that they can see the target fall...but I don't believe that!

Now, for more serious --

Foot position: You seem to like a lot of twist. Are you shooting 'Open, Neutral or Closed'? (Just so we're on the same page, I consider a closed position to be one where a right handed shooter will have his back foot closer to 6:30'ish' than to the neutral 6:00. An open position would have a 5:30'ish' rear foot. The closed position would, of course, require more twist.) I seem to get more horizontal lock-in with a closed position but my balance is adversely affected and it doesn't seem to matter what amount of backward lean I use or don't use...? (I do use a sort of narrow stance but widening it out is uncomfortable and strained.)

[dave imas]

Kindest Nomad,

i shoot a closed stance. allows me to creat a soft stop for my horizontal movement. regarding balance... foot position (as in toes pointed in or out) can have an affect. / \ or \ /. try experimenting with that to see if your balance is improved.

[nomad]

David,

Thx for the suggestion.

I've experimented with foot 'direction' and it does help some but I'm still not as balanced in a closed position as when using an open position. (I've found this: \ \ to give me the best balance. Toeing out 'slightly' with the forward foot and in 'slightly' with the rear foot seems to help.)

So, I compromise -- add a little sway for a more solid 'stop'. See what gives the most while giving up the least.

Maybe I should just concentrate on my other hobby: Nuclear Physics. (Or that may be necrophilia...? I get so mixed up with all these 'N' terms!)

[Jetmugg]

Good information here guys. That's what makes this type of forum so interesting and valuable. The flow of information around the country and around the globe was never possible before this here internet.

SteveM.