Range rifle cart

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savagesnapper
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Range rifle cart

Post by savagesnapper »

Hello to all, got a question, I saw several folks a Ben Avery with silhouette rifles in a 3 wheel carrier, I want to build my own.
Is there a rule in place which is the preferred MUZZLE UP or MUZZLE DOWN position or EITHER as long as ECI is visibly in place? Possibly
might sway the outcome of my project. Thanks for any and all input!
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by Doodaddy »

I don't know of a hard and fast rule that is consistent from range to range. atomicbrh seems to have perfected the rifle range cart if you're looking for design ideas.
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dscak1
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by dscak1 »

Many ranges require that rifles be muzzle up when moved. This is normally when they are carried so don't know if it would apply to a cart. The cart I use and most that I see (except for on shotgun ranges) carry the firearm muzzle up.
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Merlin
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by Merlin »

I would rather a rifle be aimed at my feet rather than my head.
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cedestech
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by cedestech »

Merlin wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:01 pm I would rather a rifle be aimed at my feet rather than my head.
I'd rather everyone carry their rifle to the next rack then the ridiculous traffic jamn and slow running relays from all the people pushing carts.... but that may just be me because I tend do be an arse...

:-??
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Another Dang 9
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by Another Dang 9 »

I'm fine with people using range carts to bring all there stuff from the car lot to the range line but on the firing line they should not be allowed. Thats my .02
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thauglor
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by thauglor »

Hi Savage,

I'm a regular at ben avery and part of the hassayampa club that hosts the matches there. I think any of the strollers with the big wheels would work. Ask next time you see someone with it, all nice shooters at Ben avery.
Last edited by thauglor on Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DavidABQ
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by DavidABQ »

Why not just hire someone to carry your rifles for you? Think of them as a rifle caddy like in golf.
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by cedestech »

Another Dang 9 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:03 pm I'm fine with people using range carts to bring all there stuff from the car lot to the range line but on the firing line they should not be allowed. Thats my .02
Thank God I'm not the only arse.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by dhatch »

Agreed. But I had to google the meaning of the word, arse first. :-??
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by dhatch »

DavidABQ wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:47 pm Why not just hire someone to carry your rifles for you? Think of them as a rifle caddy like in golf.
That's why I got dodaddy involved in shooting silhouette. =))
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atomicbrh
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by atomicbrh »

The only reason I built a range cart was to keep our rifles from being destroyed on the range racks.
After building the cart, other reasons to use the range cart popped up.

Every scratch or dent we have on our rifles came from fellow competitors banging their rifle against ours while taking their rifles on and off poorly designed range racks. I have a Steyr LG110 that I bought brand new in 2014 that has a gouge on the left side of the receiver from a careless person and a poorly designed range rack. That rifle lists for over $3K brand new. I saved for years to buy that rifle. After that day I will never use a range rack again.

If you do not allow range carts at your match, we will not attend your match. It is as simple as that.
Our range carts are safer than any rack at any range that I have experienced and safer than anybody else's range cart.
Reason: The rifle is secured in the rack in the cart in three different ways in the muzzle up position but yet the rifle is quick and easy to remove from the cart.

It is impossible for wind to blow the rifle out of the cart.
Our range carts have a simple tarp that is held on with 1 inch paper binders when it rains. You can remove one binder reach under the tarp and grab a rifle. Release another binder at a different place and access your ammo or range bag. You can leave the cart in the rain in the parking lot and your stuff will not get wet. You can run through a mud puddle with the cart and mud will not splash up on your stuff.

Our range carts do many things for us that help us during the match. I am not going to elaborate on those things here.
The carts appear to be simple and made of junk but they are actually very complex in what they do.

Another Dang 9, you are my friend because you are a fellow racer, but range carts do not hold up firing line traffic no more than tripods, spotting scopes and humans because the range cart carries a lot of stuff that the human would have to make multiple trips up and down the firing line to move to the next firing point. Pull wagons are a poor design and do obstruct firing line traffic. We take our range cart off the firing line and into the grass or gravel to avoid firing line traffic and arrive at our next firing point quicker than staying on the firing line in the usual traffic.

I built racing kart components and engines from October of 1982 to September of 1995. Making a 5 horsepower Briggs engine go 97 mph at 130+ degree track temperatures taught me a whole lot about tubing, welding and fabrication. The main thing was to build equipment light but strong and durable. The second thing was to build simple so that there were few things that could break and what did break was simple and quick to fix. I carry what I learned in racing over to everything I do as in the range carts. I was fanatical with racing kart fabrication because I did not want to die at almost 100 miles per hour.

The only downside to our carts is that they do not fold up and they will never fold up because if they fold they are not simple and tough. You have to have a truck to carry them. They are only designed to hold a maximum weight of about 70 pounds. Dustin Flint has been known to try to ride one like a baby but that will destroy them.

If you come to shoot our matches, you can bring your range cart but it must carry your rifles in the muzzle up position. This is not 3 gun.
Our range racks are on 8 inch centers, angled, offset, staggered with deep notches so that even if you tried to hit another rifle you cannot. Our range racks are at about waist level so that you do not have to bend over to take your rifle off the rack and dust is less likely to collect on your objective lens. If the wind blows hard and the rifle twists in our range racks they cannot hit another rifle because they are just too far a part. We do not use the range cart at our own matches because our racks are built so well.

Most of you are not going to read this long post but I studied long and hard on racks and carts for silhouette.
I still have welders, notchers, saws, sanders, grinders and a tubing bender but I do not build these range carts to sell because nobody will pay me what they are worth. I will lose money on every one.
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by cedestech »

atomicbrh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:11 pm We take our range cart off the firing line and into the grass or gravel to avoid firing line traffic and arrive at our next firing point quicker than staying on the firing line in the usual traffic.
You sir are more conscientious then 99% of the people I have ever seen with carts and are to be commended. I have observed the complete opposite behavior in each aspect you sighted. I honestly understand your reason and desire for them, I also agree there are people who "run at their own pace" and are unaware of their "firing line footprint" and the effect it has on others with regard to equipment and the flow of traffic between relays or care of their and other peoples equipment at a match.

I still maintain that crowded firing lines and carts are a poor mix and quite annoying.

YMMV and very much IMHO....

(to paraphrase, I don't have a problem with carts, big ass tripods and the like as long as the user realized their equipment and use of it effects more then just themselves....)

:D
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Brd_Hntr
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by Brd_Hntr »

OK, you have piqued my interest. Please post a photo of one of these carts. Thanks - Mark
atomicbrh
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Re: Range rifle cart

Post by atomicbrh »

OK, savagesnapper, after thinking about your original post overnight I have reflected on what you may really be asking.
I think muzzles up is the only safe way to build your cart specifically for rifle silhouette.

Muzzles should NOT be pointed at the ground, feet, legs or head and all that can happen if you just bolt ATV type holders to the frame of a jogging stroller because the rifles will be at the same angle as the side rail as in either pointed at your head or at your legs. A ECI is not enough of a safety device to have a rifle pointed in just any direction.

If muzzles are down and you pick the front wheel of the buggy up to turn it, the rifle could be pointed much higher up on a person's body.

If the muzzles are pointed up and you pick up the front wheel of the buggy to turn it, the rifle will be pointed at the body of the person pushing the buggy or at someone behind the pusher person.

I would fabricate a device to hold the rifles in the absolutely straight up vertical position as we did. When you push down on the handle to lift up the front wheel to steer and turn the buggy, the muzzle will not point back far enough to be aimed at the person pushing it.

The other disadvantage of the muzzle down position is that all kinds of dirt and mud will be thrown up into the end of the barrel.

If you build on a jogging stroller, I think the Kool-Stride brand is the best by far, with the Baby Jogger brand a very close second.
Good carts can also be built off of Instep, Babytrend, Jeep, Graco and Schwinn. The Kool-stride and Baby Joggers have a longer footprint and take up more room on the firing line but only in length not width. Jeep has a slightly wider footprint than the others but still can only hold two rifles safely. Avoid the double jogging strollers. They do not fit well or maneuver well on small, crowded firing lines.

If the front wheel has the swivel feature, never use it. Keep it locked in the straight position all the time because they are prone to flip over if the front wheel swivels at the wrong time.

The advantage of building off of jogging strollers is that parking brakes do not need to be fabricated because they already have parking brakes. There is no way to achieve a low center of gravity with the rifles in a true vertical position. So, if you go across a slope sideways have a good grip on your buggy or it will flip over. Never mount an umbrella on your buggy. Mark Pharr learned why at Raton in 2007.
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