Anschutz Trigger Question

dwainasaurus · Post by **dwainasaurus** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:28 pm

Hello All,

I have a Savage-Anschutz hunter style rifle. I don't know anything about it's trigger. I assume it is a single stage. How can I verify this? Also, I would like to adjust the trigger a little more toward the rear. Can this be done? I know there are a few different Anschutz triggers out there. If I need to identify the model of trigger, are there any features that would help me do that?

Thanks
Dwainasaurus

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:20 am

Dwain,

You pretty much need the model number of the rifle. It ought to be marked.

For a (VERY) quick and dirty primer on triggers:

A two stage trigger will have some 'slack' (1st stage) to pull through before you bump up against the 2nd stage stop where the trigger is about to release.
Typically, the slack will be about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. What you're doing when you pull through this stage -- in a 'real' 2 stage unit -- is moving the trigger nose/sear/catch link/whatever from fully engaged to the brink of release. Then -- due to changes in the internal geometry -- you encounter more pressure (2nd stage) and the trigger 'breaks' as you pull through that.

In a single-stage unit, the trigger nose and sear are in a fixed relationship until you create enough trigger pressure to break the connection. There should be no slack in a good, single-stage trigger.

The main reason 2 stage triggers were developed was to allow rough handling of military rifles (bolt slamming, bayonet fighting, etc) while maintaining enough trigger engagement that you were unlikely to accidentally fire. Then, when you actually wanted to shoot, you would still have a clean, useable 2nd stage break.
For our purposes, the advantage of the 2 stage unit is that, for a given weight of pull, you can pull half or better of the weight in the first stage and then you KNOW you're on the edge of firing with only a consistent, small amount of trigger pressure left to go when you feel the 2nd stage.

Please don't take this wrongly: (It's not meant to be condescending.)

1. That's a very short explanation and it leaves a LOT out.
2. Triggers are easily mis-set.
3. If you have to ask the question that you did, you don't know enough about trigger mechanics to be changing anything on them.

FWIW, physically moving the position of the trigger staff on the older rifles is probably not feasible...although it 'may' be possible to replace the staff with one that incorporates a sliding shoe.

You need to take the rifle to a 'smith who knows how to safely set the trigger where it belongs.
Anything else is sky-diving without a reserve.

Where do you live? Someone here may be able to suggest a reliable shop.

dwainasaurus · Post by **dwainasaurus** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:40 am

Hi Nomad,

The barrel is marked Savage-Anschutz 164. I also pulled the action out and inspected the trigger for markings. I couldn't find any.

I believe I saw only two adjustable screws (both with lock nuts). With only two adjustments I assume neither of them is trigger fore and aft. Would they adjust take-up and weight?

The trigger is definately a single stage.

Just so you know, I don't plan on messing with a good thing. I am very happy with the trigger other than it feels just a little too far from the pistol grip.

Thanks
Dwaine

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:17 am

You can hit up the Annie website for manuals which do a fair job of explaining the differences and adjustments to many of their triggers....

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/english. ... opicID=105

I think you'll want to start with the 1400 Series rifles as that's the current designation for your 164 IIRC?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:25 am

Actually - looking thru the PDF's - the one for the "64R Target Small Bore Rifles" has a better model/trigger cross-ref on page 12. It also sports some info on the "ranges" of production years.

Looks like :

1959-1974
1974-1979 serial's #143655-#182155
1979-present

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:59 pm

"Guest"

If you're going to suggest that someone who doesn't know the difference between single and two-stage triggers just jump right in and start making adjustments, it would be nice to see some ID.

Just in case Dwaine doesn't get it right and I have to duck some time on the line, I'd like to know who to 'talk' to about responsibility.

genphideaux · Post by **genphideaux** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:44 pm

A 164 is the predecessor to the 1416

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:28 pm

Dawg,

You're right. Also, I talked with Neal Stepp today (Dwaine: Neal is one of Anschutz' approved US dealers.) and he 'thinks' that the triggers in the Savage-Anschutz rifles were very different from what's currently available and that there's not much, if any, parts commonality.

Next time I'm over at his shop -- it's only about 8 miles away -- he says that he'll dig out his older parts books and let me see if we can find something that'll help. (It would be nice if the staff on the current trigger -- the one that accepts the sliding shoe -- would fit. That's a 20 minute 'fix'.)

Anyway, I'll try to take a look sometime in the next few days or so (I'm not going to have much time before next Wednesday) and post what I find back here.

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:39 pm

Dwaine,

One thing I forgot to suggest.

If you know anyone who's pretty capable with a welder, it's no great trick to cut that staff and have a new trigger piece (shoe) put on. For that matter, it could even be brazed or silver soldered.

You still need someone who knows enough about triggers to take it apart and put it -- correctly -- back together again. (They're not really complicated but we've had near accidents at at least 2 Nationals that I can think of due to poorly adjusted triggers. We don't need any more...)

genphideaux · Post by **genphideaux** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:19 pm

Nomad,

I know they adjust the same as the 1710, but the 164 has an overtravel screw and will not fit a 1710 action nor will the 1710 fit a 164, but an 64MS trigger will fit the 164, how I found that out will take a scotch and a cigar to tell, less just say it is a fine bushy tail gun.

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:21 pm

Dawg,

That may solve his problem.

IIRC, the 64MS trigger is the same as the older target units that were available with the sliding shoe.

I'll check with Neal.

Thanks!

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:35 pm

Dwaine,

Call Neal Stepp @ ISS (International Shooters Services) in Ft Worth, TX.

817 - 595-2090

He'll try to help you. (I passed to him genphideaux's info that the 64MS unit will fit.)
He does ask that you have the rifle in hand with the stock removed when you phone so that the two of you can make sure that you're on the same page.

I'll let you buy Dawg the drink and the cigar! lol

dwainasaurus · Post by **dwainasaurus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 pm

Darn, this is getting complicated. I appreciate all the digging you guys have done and will get in touch with Neal.

Dwaine