How young to start in Silhouette shooting?

[psteiger]

the problem with the internet is no matter how you word something, someone is gonna misinterpert it and just bash the crap out of you. I am offended that you imply that I hand out weapons like candy, that I don't supervise, and that I treat firearms nor matter what they shoot, like toys. I reread the posts and nowhere does it say any of that, nor does it imply it.

[jneihouse]

If their formative experiences with guns and "things that shoot" don't teach them that the consequences of their mistakes are permanent and possibly deadly, they are less likely to learn to respect the real thing.

In my "formative" years my friends and I spent a lot of time "shooting" injuns with cap pistols and "pretend" guns often made out of sticks (this before I realized that my mom was a Native American and, as such, a squaw. After that we graduated to killing our WWII enemies as we re-created the epic battles of WWII. We also shot the fool out of our BB guns and .22's and shotguns and, at least once a year, our deer rifles. We never seemed to have a problem separating reality from fiction and deadly things from toys. That's because we were taught the difference and understood the consequences when we pulled the trigger. I refuse to believe my generation (I'm 50 years old) was any sharper at that age then todays kids. BB guns and Air Soft guns are fun to shoot and a great way to teach firearms safety. I say get them started young and re-enforce good gun safety habits in a positive way and you'll have a shot at turning out a young shooter that is as safe and gracious and fun to be around as Pat Stieger's daughter Elizabeth....By the way, do kids still play cowboys and indians, or is that not "politically correct"? Maybe they just wait till they grow up and become "re-enactors"???

Kitty

[BlauBear]

It's all computer games these days, John. Pretend of a different kind.

[jneihouse]

I really miss the innocence of the times I grew up in. Guns were not blamed for the criminal's failure to interact with society in a meaningful manner and certainly didn't strike fear in the hearts of innocent people and were not the subject of such a heartfelt movement to "control" their purchase and use. Those were days before school shootings, when radical differences of opinion between student and teacher or between student and student were not settled with firearms and homemade bombs, but with a stiff paddling or a good old fistfight after school. Those were days when you could bring your shotgun to school (just leave it in your's or a buddy's vehicle during school hours) so you could get to the dove fields a get in a couple of hours shooting before dark. The first day of deer season was an excused absence and the guy next to you in the duck blind might well have been your sunday school teacher or your high school principal. These were pre-PETA days when we shot varmits and other chicken and egg stealing predators and were proud of it. We deer hunted, hoping of course for a huge racked buck, but were just as happy to fill the tags with good "freezer meat" that was a welcome addition to the family table. I recall well and treasure the memory of a hunting vest heavy with cottontails collected on a Sunday afternoon's ramble in the woods with an old single shot shotgun of questionable heritage. And most fondly I remember those "enablers" who put the guns in my hands, furnished the fresh package of BBs with the admonishment that they had to last me a while and whos' strong hands and caring demeanor taught me about firearms safety and how "forever" on mistake made with a firearm could be.

Maybe we have too much TV and too many video games anymore, 'Bear.

Kitty

[kevinpagano]

We have way to many video games. The problem that arises from those is enhanced when those kids do not get real gun experience as well. All they have in their subconscience about guns is that its a part of a game. This issue drives me crazy we have neighbors and their kids do not see the light of day during the summer. I refuse and never will have video games especially shooting ones in my house. And if i ever changed my mind they would be of a more realistic nature like hunting games or such. Video games are destroying our kids and our relationships with them. They also hinder their ability to deal socially with other people. Show me a kid that has killed his fellow students and I will bet his babysitter was an XBox or the like.

sorry for the rant

kevin

[Worker 11811]

psteiger;

I'm sorry but I did not intend the reader to assume that my statements made any implications to that effect.

I simply stated my belief. I even said that I was probably just quibbling. I explained why I believe it and I ended up by saying that one has the right to bring up their own kids the way they see fit.

Yes, I made statements about my values but I do not think I was talking about them in such a way that indicated another person's values on the subject were any less valid.

That was not my intent. I offer my apologies if what I wrote did not make that perfectly clear.

[pistolero45]

Kids now-a-day spend way too much time indoors. Remember how kids in our day played outside? We entertained ourselves, learned about the natural world, and were physically healthy.

This really hit me a couple of weeks ago when I helped chaparone my daughter's 8th grade science class. We were at a state park just south of town for a day of orienteering. At age 47 I was in far better physical shape than most of the kids, who struggled up and down the hills. And I was shocked to learn that about half of the kids had never been to our state park even though it is only 2 miles from the city limit.

And believe it or not, some of these kids were terrified to be out in the woods. They have been raised by the TV, where bad things always happen in the woods.

This is so sad and I have no idea how we as a society can reverse it.

[Pete A.]

Pat; I too get very very frustrated with forum strings about kids & shooting.

Many responses come off very condescending. For me I just leave the discussion (heck as a parent i got lots of other things to do anyway) when it spins this way. Kids ought to be raised this way......; when I was a kid......

I find at the range it is all better as the vast majority of the shooters love having the little guys & gals there. Just look at all the good natured banter Thomas & Elisabeth get going with so many shooters. They really liven it up. Most of the shooters keep an eye out and give friendly well meaning comments to them about safety. (I'm hoping your daughter will give me some pointers!)

Your club; PSC & Bayou Rifles go out of their way to make the kiddo's feel welcome. Forget what gun they start with, what ammo, what scope, for me it is the respect level they are given when on the firing line that brings them back.

Pete A.

[CWS]

Back to the question at hand...
Both of our daughters started shooting at an early age... 6 to 7 yrs old... but weren't allowed to compete in small local matches until they were about 10. Good habits and motor skills take time to develop and, in the meantime, NO ONE should have to look down the barrel of our rifles. They were 12 yrs old before their individual debuts as shooters in the larger matches. The size of the match has nothing to do with their level of concentration. It does, however, have a direct impact on MY ability to supervise and, if needed, correct. Have fun with this but don't put the rest of us in peril... this game is stressful enough.

[atomicbrh]

My 15 year old son started Smallbore Rifle Silhouette at age 9. I had never shot in competition before that time but worked with many retired military guys who could not stop shooting competitively in civilian life. My son grew up around these guys. At age 5,6,7, and 8 we were attending about every kind of match in our area trying to find something that would be safe for him to compete in at the earliest age: IDPA, IPSC/USPSA, NRA Highpower across the course, Smallbore Prone, Bullseye Pistol and many more. All of these were too expensive, too loud or too complex for a little kid. 4H in our county was no help at all. He tried Smallbore prone with a Junior sized rifle but did not like fiddling with the spotting scope, sling, etc. We subscribed to Shooting Sports USA and saw Smallbore Rifle Silhouette Matchs were being held a 3 hour drive away. I ordered a rule book from the NRA, attended a match to watch, shot the next match, and brought the son to compete in the third Match at age 9. There happened to be a few names that might be familiar to you all at this match: Tom Hill, James Culpepper, Jerry Tureau, Alan McCullough, Larry Shook, Nick Wilson, Dan Healy, Joe Terminy, Ronald Moak. I had stumbled into a hotbed of Smallbore Silhouette shooters and they all helped us over the years learn this important game.

The main factor that convinced me that this was the shooting sport for my child was that the rules are structured so that the adult can take the rifle off the rack and take it to the firing point for the child. When the child is through shooting his last round at a bank the adult can set the Adjustable Objective and the Elevation for the next animal. When the cease fire, remove your euqipment from the line command is given the adult can make sure the action is open, open chamber indicator is in place and take the rifle back to the rack for the child. In other words Rifle Silhouette rules are tailor made in my opinion for the child who has a strong desire to shoot in competition at an early age as long as the parent will give the child 100% of his attention when the child is handling the rifle. I handled my son's safety issues until about age 11 but still stayed close enough to him after that age to take the rifle from him or control the direction of the muzzle if he had a lapse in safety procedures. I am proud to say that I can never recall any safety violations where I had to control the muzzle or take the rifle from him. Gradually as he grew and had more Match experience he took on more of the responsibilites concerned with shooting his rifle. He started with loading his magazines by himself, then setting his own Elevation and A.O. settings, then added taking his rifle to and from the rack with me walking with him, and the last step was when he could safely shoot practice by himself without any attention from me. The step by step process to teach a youngster how to shoot a Match independently takes several years not months when you start them at age 9.

You have to basically put the child first if they want to start young. I do not think a 8,9 or 10 year old should go to anything but approved 1/2 day 40 shot matchs. At age 11 they have the stamina to start shooting the Registered 2 or 3 day matchs. I always stressed that this was a team sport and we were on the same team. I spotted for him and he spotted for me even at small matchs. If there were not enough relays for me to shoot, I did not shoot. I always made sure he got to shoot his relays even if I did not. There was no playing in the dirt or throwing rocks in the parking lot. If your child even thinks about playing with dirt or something similar at a match they are not mature enough to match shoot. I told mine that you can throw rocks and balls while at home but there are only a limited number of matchs each year to shoot and we better concentrate on learning all we can about marksmanship while we are at a range.

A mistake with the little kids a lot of parents make is a rifle that is too heavy. A 9 or 10 year old needs a really light rifle. The rifle should feel way too light during practice and the first few banks of the first match but that same rifle to a little kid will feel just right on the last 20 shots of the day. Never worry about going too light or small with 8,9 and 10 year olds.

We always had long drives(3 hours one way) even to local monthly matchs. Being locked in that metal cubicle hurtling down the highway together for hours on end, then shooting and spotting together, practicing during the week together gives you a lot of time to really talk to your child and creates a bond between you and your child that no other sport can do. Stick and Ball sports are good. Do not get me wrong. But most parents nowadays just want to get away from their child and have a coach take the child off their hands for as long as possible. I know because I coached the stick and ball sports for years. Rifle Silhouette forms bonds in ways that I have not seen in other sports.

We learned lessons about marksmanship, firearms safety, competition and handling situations that come along in life from Smallbore Rifle Silhouette that I do not think could be learned in any other way. The Journey has been worth it and it is not over yet.


Bobby R. Huddleston

[Pete A.]

Bobby;

You bring up an excellent point about cost. Smallbore Shilouette is very affordable for parents to participate with their kids. I had basically no help from the 3 position groups. They already had their 'select' kids and we'd be just part of the crowd. We would have to drive 40 miles+ each way and have to buy $1k plus guns right off the bat. Hard to justify all that on a suburban dad's budget.

We started Thomas (now 14) with a cut down well used $125 Rem 581 & $80 scope coupled with $1.50/box ammo. I also started on a very budget rig (NS522 & Bushnell 6-18x Trophy). We moved him up to a Anschutz 1451 ($425 used with Tasco shilouette scope). He now shoots a Cooper Jackson Hunter & Weaver T-24. But we were able to do this in stages with no loading of credit cards. (I again traded guns for the move with little out of pocket, but did have to give up a 'trusted' hunting rifle I seldom used).

Luckily we live very close to Bayou Rifles Eldridge range. We started with the pistol shilouette & Sportsman Challenge targets. REACTIVE TARGETS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THEIR INTEREST. They love the falling down rather than just holes in paper.

His brother (very small 11) seems to like it but often laggs in interest. I see that he brings a gameboy/books/comics in case he bores and doesn't want to shoot (keep it fun). He shoots the small Anschutz Achiever (traded a bit neglected deer rifle for it so no cash outlay; we all have seldom used guns that can be converted this way into "useable" guns) & Bushnell 3-9x Airgun scope. When/if he shows more interest & grows he'll get the 1451. We'll trade/sell Achiever for other equiment. Again always buying with the next step in mind.

My best advice is keep it safe and keep it fun. They will want to come back.

Pete A.

PS.: At Saturday's Bayou Rifle Match our (I say "our" as everyone one there makes these 2 feel like part of the "crew") two 14 year olds took home the Gold. Elisabeth Stieger whomped EVERYBODY (ouch Larry!) for overall Match winner with strong Masters Scores. My own son Thomas goes on to win AA's and did this in a shoot off against one the adult mentors he looks up to (ouch me and several other lowly AA's).

[tulsatime]

My little guys are 7 now (twins!). They started shooting silhouette with me at age 6. I bought them both Cricket single shots and we marched at the farm learing the safety and basics of shooting. Taking them to the Silhouette Match at Red Castle here in Tulsa helped them learn the rules of the sport and they get to learn not only from me, but about a dozen mature, helpful, safety minded shooters.

The boys love it and do pretty well with the rules and okay at hitting the targets. So far I have not let them have a scope on their guns as I want them to learn open sight shooting first. They average about 3 target knock downs per match. Not bad for 7 yr olds and open sights.

I know I have started them right as they showed me they are more responsible than a pair of 13 year olds that showed up with their dad to plink after the match. A gentleman asked for a cease fire to set up targets....we all agreed...the 13 yr olds started reloading their guns and pointing them down range as the gentleman was still setting up his targets. My boys along with me and my friend all firmly asked them to put down their guns. So as I see it, I feel proud that my boys at 7 years old have already learned valuable safety lessons and they have a ton of fun with me.

Also the boys are not so curious at home about my guns and the need to "play" with them. (Yes I keep them locked up in a safe) They know that if they see a gun they walk away and keep their friends away and let an adult know its a safety risk.

Thank you for all of you role models out there teaching safe shooting sports and smallbore silhouette shooting!

[fartsinpublic]

I found this old thread after my 7 year old asked me if he could join me --and shoot-- at our next competition. Yesterday we took his Savage Rascal with a cheap 3-9 on it out to the range and set up the swingers. He was shooting from a high bench with a bipod, as we haven't begun offhand lessons just yet; he surprised me by wanting to shoot standing already. Our range is an IHMSA range, and the swingers are two 3/8 animals flanking a 1/5 animal in the middle. I had previously taken his rifle out with a box of bulk ammo out to get the rough scope settings, so when we set up yesterday, things would go smoother with me just having to verify point of aim at each distance. His prior experience has been on the steel targets side of the range, hitting 12x12" hanging plates at 50 & 75. To incentivize him, I set up a bounty for each swinger he'd hit, starting off at a quarter for a chicken, going up to a few bucks for the 1/5 scale ram, which he gets as ammo credits towards future outings, not cash. After our session, he did the math and figured out that he could get better by shooting well and getting more or better ammo through his efforts. When we got to the rams, his first shot missed the 3/8 swinger but hit the 1/5 one and I had to give him credit to keep it fun and maintain his sense of accomplishment.

I'm going to chat with the old guys at our range and see what can be done about letting him shoot at the inside animals on the last relay as an intro in an upcoming match. I think the adjustment is as much on their part as my kid's, as no one has brought a youth shooter to the matches that I have seen, and they're pretty much all grandpas on the line.

Also the boys are not so curious at home about my guns and the need to "play" with them. (Yes I keep them locked up in a safe) They know that if they see a gun they walk away and keep their friends away and let an adult know its a safety risk.

That resonates here too. My boy isn't curious after observing me with my rifles, and I echo that philosophy: he knows what to do to keep himself safe, and keep his friends safe, should a firearm be "found". We talk about it regularly and before he goes off to friends' houses. Having his own 22 to shoot has given him a sense of responsibility and maturity that many of his classmates won't have for a few years, and hopefully the kids never stumble upon a firearm, but I would rather have one in the group know what to do and try to prevent a tragedy than none in the group have a clue and be curious twits about it.

(I also keep my rifle bolts and ammo in separate locked boxes, rendering the rifles less dangerous than a baseball bat, so to speak. They come home from the range that way, so even during cleaning, the bolts and ammo are separate from the rifles. Belts and braces, maybe, but why not. No firing pin is a pretty effective safety measure for target rifle storage, I think.)

Anyway, I'm joining the moms and dads (and grandparents) who have shared advice and enthusiasm for youth participation in this thread by taking their advice of keeping it safe and fun, and looking forward to hopefully one more who takes to this game. Thanks for the tips. Glad I found this old thread.

[snaketail2]

I'm sure someone else said this - but it depends on the kid. I've seen 40-year olds I didn't trust with a gun, and I've seen 12-year olds that I felt comfortable with. I was a teacher for many years, everything from middle school to graduate school. Some have the presence of mind to be save and interested in the sport - some don't, it varies with the individual.

Teach them right and you (and they) will be OK.

Michael