Anschutz Springs??

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:47 pm

Now that we have thoroughly discussed firing pin springs in the past few days including their replacement and maintenance schedule, the thought occured to me: What about magazine maintenance and magazine spring and follower replacement, lubrication and maintenance? What is the replacement schedule for the Anschutz magazine spring? Does Wolff also make a super duper magazine spring that will feed every round into that Anschutz match chamber with ultimate precision better than Deiter ever imagined possible? Also, is there a magazine spring tester out there for sale to quantitate the accuracy and repeatability of the compression characterisitics of the magazine spring and at what point it fatigues and should be replaced? And, if the spring feels weak why can we not just stretch our old spring out to its original length? This got me to thinking some more about springs. There are some Anschutz springs in that old junky Anschutz trigger that all of us are using. How often do those springs need replacing with Wolff springs and is there a device for sale to test these small springs? How about some advice on these serious situations occuring with these evil springs?(Now to be more serious, Smalbore Silhouette is not an equipment race or a spring race. That is one of the reasons we chose this wonderful sport. Where is Dave Imas when you need him?)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! All of us have a lot to be thankful for.
Bobby R. Huddleston
Joel B. Huddleston

Jetmugg · Post by **Jetmugg** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:36 pm

I am a professional Metallurgical Engineer in my "day job". I work with spring steels all day long, every day. I held off on the other thread, but thought maybe I could share some information related to fatigue of carbon steels.

If the stresses acting on the steel are below the fatigue limit for the material, then the material will never fail by fatigue. This is not true for many other common engineering materials. Aluminum, for example, has no fatigue limit. No matter how low an applied cyclic stress is on an aluminum component, it will eventually fatigue. Again, if it is a steel component, the fatigue limit must be exceeded in order for failure to occur by fatigue. Fatigue is a very specific definition of a failure mode normally requiring tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of cycles before failure occurs.

Now, what we would need to know are the design criteria for the various components of the rifles in question, and the actual fatigue limits for the steel(s) used to make these components. Does anyone have access to the engineering data used by Anschutz in the design of their rifles? Probably not, at least not outside the Anschutz factory.

Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving.

Steve M.

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:35 pm

I merely started this new topic about those evil Anschutz springs to prove to everyone that I do have a sense of humor, warped as it may be. Thanks Steve M. for your informative reply verifying what I hinted at that some steel springs are of such high quality that they can cycle millions of times with no measurable decrease in performance(fatigue/failure).

Thanks,
Bobby R. Huddleston

Joaquin B · Post by **Joaquin B** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:07 am

Jetmugg,

Nice to have a fellow Metallurgical Engineer on board!

In terms of practical application, the design of striker springs is governed by the impact force required (striker mass x impact velocity). Given the dimensional I. D. and O.D. constraints of the spring, required "weight" is determined by the type of ally steel used, the temper and the number of "turns" in the spring. Since fatigue stregth and fatigue life are determined by the amount of deflection and the stresses involved, any spring that does not undergo deflection exceeding the elastic strain limit of the steel will have infinite (generally accepted as 1 million cycles and higher) fatigue life. More "turns" result in more force and less deflection. Therefore, if anyone is concerned about fatigue life of springs, my recommendation would be to obtain Wolff "Blitzschnell" springs, since they have a few more turns than factory springs. As clear as mud, right?

genphideaux · Post by **genphideaux** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:46 am

So let me get this right if I increase my o.d. ,gain enough weight, change my temper and get wound tight, I will suffer far less from fatigue. And they say this is a demanding sport..........lol

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:08 pm

Dawg,

No way you could be considered to be wound too tight......

Jetmugg · Post by **Jetmugg** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:34 pm

Jake:
There just aren't too many metallurgists around. Based on your location, are you in the mining industry? I spend most of my days working with 1075, 1085, 6150, and some 400 series stainless materials. I work for a company that makes cutting tools for the food processing industry. There is a lot of spring tempered steel that gets used as bandsaw blades.
Anyway, good information on the springs. I think that a lot of people might also have a misconception about what fatigue failures are. Fatigue is not simply the steel "getting tired". Fatigue is a failure mode that ultimately results in a fracture.

SteveM.

genphideaux · Post by **genphideaux** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:43 pm

John,

I guess I'll have to work at it, because it seems this is the way to relieve fatique. Last year at winnie after them all nighters I was fatiqued or hung over I forget, they say the mind is the first thing to.........Oh I can't remmeber. Any way I think this whole concept maybe in our favour, we have most of the step already started. Tight'en up can't be to bad maybe a tazer would help,a little prematch shock or two.

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:16 am

This spring thing is getting tricky. In David Tubbs' latest book he talks about how he adapted the 5018 Anschutz trigger to a Winchester Mod 70 and he feels that the springs iin the Anschutz trigger are good for one million cycles.......

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:42 pm

There is a critical time in competitive shooting when a person must turn off the tinkering scientist and turn on the determined athlete. There is not room here to expound on how I learned this but Lt. Philip Hemphill 8 time NRA National Police Pistol Champion and Mississippi Law Enforcement Officers Training Academy Weapons Instructor drummed this fact into my head and my son's head in ways that you cannot imagine.

Bobby R. Huddleston

ajj · Post by **ajj** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:46 am

Bobby, there's lots of room here for...well...there's lots of room here. I, for one, would be most interested in anything either you or Officer Hemphill had to say about competitive mindset. Better yet, PM me!
Alston.

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:35 pm

Alston, I sent you a PM.
Bobby R. Huddleston

Anschutz Springs??

Anschutz Springs??

Spring replacement.

Metallurgist