gunsmith question

[Hawk-1]

Need help from some of the knowledgable gunsmiths here. I am having a lilja barrel installed on my 1710. it will eject if fired, but not without being fired. Anyone had this problem, and if so what are your thoughts on the cure. Thanks so much in advance. Hawk-1

[Jason]

Chamber a round and try to extract it. When/if it won't extract, use a cleaning rod (careful with the crown!) to push it out and inspect the bullet. Does it have obvious engraving of the rifling on the bullet? If so, this is the resistance that is preventing it from being extracted from the chamber and isn't necessarily a bad thing. The chamber of the Lilja barrel on my 1712 is this way, and will not extract unfired rounds if I haven't cleaned out under the extractors recently. My particular rifle will gradually let a tiny amount of fouling get under the extractors in the grooves on the sides of the bolt. This tiny bit of fouling keeps the extractors from pivoting in as far as they do when the groove is completely clean, only a little but enough to make unfired rounds sometimes fail to extract. I only found this after checking the usual things like extractor wear, etc. I improved it a bit with some light shaping with a stone on the extractors to make them fit the groove as perfectly as possible, but I didn't really take any material away to give room for a layer of fouling so the problem isn't totally gone. If you want to check to see if this is your problem, pull your bolt and slide out the spring clip holding your extractors in the grooves so you can see under them. Clean out the grooves well, inspecting the extractors for wear/shape while you have them out cleaning them and be very light with oil when putting them back in. The spring clip is fairly tricky to get back on the first few times you do it. I usually slide it on from the front of the bolt, making sure the ends of it are partially over both extractors. This makes it easier to snap over each one than starting with it completely over one and then trying to get it over the other one. Note that this is just my method. I have seen a couple others, but this has been the easiest for me. Also makee sure your extractor grooves in the breech are cleaned out and the extractors are aligned properly to slide into them without getting slightly deflected so that they don't reach as far as they would if they could just go in straight.

This problem on a silhouette rifle does make me uneasy. I didn't mind it so much on a benchrest rifle, as I do think it helps accuracy. With a silhouette rifle, the chance of running out of time or any other reason for calling for a cease fire is much higher than benchrest, and having a rifle that you can't unload easily without firing isn't ideal. I hope to have to time to look into it a bit more in the next month or two, and hopefully the gunsmiths here will be able to shed some more light on possible other causes and remedies. Thanks for bringing this up for discussion.

[lone ringer]

This problem on a silhouette rifle does make me uneasy. I didn't mind it so much on a benchrest rifle, as I do think it helps accuracy. With a silhouette rifle, the chance of running out of time or any other reason for calling for a cease fire is much higher than benchrest, and having a rifle that you can't unload easily without firing isn't ideal. I hope to have to time to look into it a bit more in the next month or two, and hopefully the gunsmiths here will be able to shed some more light on possible other causes and remedies. Thanks for bringing this up for discussion.

Jason, in the late 90's I got shot in the chest by a friend of mine that had a silhouette hunting rifle re barreled and chambered with a match reamer. The rifle was a very old Sporter 54 Anschutz/Savage and the extractors more than likely never replaced.
The circumstances of the accident were that my friend was involved in a shoot off, ran out of time and did not fire his last round, he then opened the bolt and thought he had ejected the live round (the people running the match were not enforcing the use of the open bolt indicator rule).

After the shoot off my friend took the rifle and put it on top of his opened aluminum case, the match was over and I was seating in front of the table where the rifle case was. I was waiting for him to put his equipment away so we could go grab something to eat. He then without checking if the hunting rifle's chamber was empty proceed to close the bolt and pull the trigger on the live round stuck in the chamber, the rifle went off and the bullet graced the top of the foam, hit the lip of the aluminum case and fragmented a bit, the biggest fragment 29 gr of it hit me on the upper chest and lodged against the sternum's bone (good thing I was sitting sideways to the table were the gun case was), two other fragments hit my neck and chest but those wounds were minor compared to the other one. I was airlifted from the range to a local hospital and kept over night for observation, since I did not have internal organ injuries they released me the next day and a few weeks later I had an operation to remove the bullet from my chest. I did not want to get gun shy to I went to another local match the week after I got shot. I consider my self very lucky to have survived the shooting and thank God for it.

The reason I am telling what happened to me is to educate people so that they know what can happen with equipment that is not 100% safe and if they know they have a rifle that will not extract a live round that they should call the range officer and make him aware of the situation so they can be given time to fire the live round if they run out of time. Another thing to be aware of is of rifles placed on top of tables without empty chamber indicators.

[Trent]

Thank you for sharing that with us Lone Ringer. I was not aware of that happening to you. I am wiser for having read that.

[lone ringer]

Thank you for sharing that with us Lone Ringer. I was not aware of that happening to you. I am wiser for having read that.

You are welcome Trent

[CZforlife]

Wow! Thanks for the story. Just out of curiosity does anybody know where I can buy new extractors for my Savage Anschutz 54 sporter?

[cedestech]

THAT is a very good story... thanks for sharing.

Now, the question is... did your friend buy you a beer afterwards....

[Hawk-1]

Thanks jason. Great reply. I wonder if you and I are the only ones to ever experience the failure to extract. How about it gunsmiths???

[Jerry G]

It is not uncommon for a very tight chamber. The game we play doesn't require the accuracy of a match chamber so I don't think it is a good idea to have one because of the safety issues.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

There are several styles of match reamers, the real tight ones with a straight wall chamber ( Myer's style) will not extract a live round in certain actions with a clip on "c" style extractor retainer aka 1712, the 40X style will extract anything. Also if the chamber is cut to engrave the bullet, it will also make it difficult to extract live rounds in certain actions, specially with the cheaper priced ammo.
For Silhouette competition, a real tight chamber is not required, and not recomended due to the different brands of ammo. used.
If you really want to be able to extract a live round 100% of the time, it will required a looser chamber, or depening the extractor groove in the barrel to where it will practically break into the chamber wall to allow 100% grip around the case ream.
To check your chamber, whether is loose or tight, you should be able to put a loaded round in the chamber, and push it completely in with your finger, with no pressure. If it stops about .100" from seating all the way, and then you have to push it in with a lot more pressure, it is actually engraving into the lands, and will be harder to extract live.
The Ely ammo. is probably the easier to extract, cheaper stuff like CCI standard or Aquila sometimes it won't even close in tight chambers even with extra pressure in the bolt handle.
Also like Jason stated, it is always a good practice to clean the face of the bolt, specially under the extractor lips, and also the face of the barrel all around the chamber, any trash in this areas will not allowed the extractor to fully engaged the rim of the case. Using an open chamber indicator all the time while at the range is also a very important practice.
If for any reason you feel like you have to close the bolt on an empty chamber, and pull the trigger, always make sure it is pointed in a safe direction !!!!!!!!
Evelio.