Which .22 for silhouette?

[Shootndig]

Guess I should clarify. LH2 asked about wether the CZ453 (new model for '06) with it's set trigger would solve the trigger improvement situation.
I'm guessing that the answer is yes....and no. While the ability to use a set trigger will certainly give you a very nice trigger, a pull of less than 2 lbs. would disqualify the rifle from the hunter class. AFAIK there is little or no cosmetic difference between the CZ452 and the CZ453-- the major difference is the single set trigger. I don't know for sure how equipment check will address this. It would seem that the CZ453 would (or could ) be illegal for Hunter, but would obviously be OK for Standard ( sort of the opposite of the normal "if it's legal for Hunter it's legal for Standard"). As the CZ453 looks like the CZ452 American, and also AFAIK they are still making both models, is one legal and the other not ?? Anyone seen this situation addressed before??

[nomad]

I discussed this in passing three years or more ago with GC. (I bought a Finnfire that came through with a Sako set trigger. This was, apparently, a mistake since -- although it came right out of the box from a domestic distributer -- neither Stoegers nor Beretta will admit to importing that trigger.)

At that time, I was given to understand that any trigger that wouldn't hold 2 lbs -- in any configuration -- was unacceptable. I still have the trigger but it's on a .223 Tikka varminter now and the Tikka trigger's on the Finnfire. (BTW: If any of you are doing tech and note a BLUE, STEEL trigger dangling under a Sako/Tikka -- instead of that bright, aluminum colored version that you generally see -- you might try pushing it forward and noting whether it clicks into 'set' mode!)

I would, certainly, trust ANY silhouette shooter on the line to NEVER EVEN THINK about unobtrusively pushing his hunter trigger forward 1/4" in order to drop the pull from 2 lbs to about 4 ounces.

OF COURSE I WOULD!

If I'm running tech, unless a trigger carries the 2 lb weight -- in its lightest configuration -- it won't get a sticker.

My experience has been that many/most single-set triggers can be adjusted so that the set doesn't function. (The Sako can be but, on the one that I have, it degrades the quality of the break.) IMO, if the set function is adjusted out, there is nothing at all wrong with using that trigger...as long as it's still safe.

I need to call up to Sodom-on-Potomac anyway. I'll do that tomorrow and post the word I get on this.

[LH2]

LH2,

The stock 504 barrel is a 1-14.5 twist, this is the same twist they used on the 40x, from all the testing I did(look for my posts on rimfire) it just did not measure up to my standards. I have worked on a total of seven now that belong to other shooters, some think it is fine, some change the barrel, your results may vary.

This sport is a journey, not a destination, enjoy the ride

Thanks for the info.

Who chose the 504 in the poll?

Why did Remington decide on the oddball 1 in 14.5 twist anyway, just for the sake of being different? Did it work in the 40X? Is 1 in 16 just inherently more accurate?

Seems everybody who owns, or has handled, the 504 remarks on the terrific balance and pointability of the rifle. I'm looking forward to checking it out, but would hate to spend nearly $500 and end up needing to replace the barrel.

I need to visit some gun shops and handle these rifles. Nobody seems to stock Anschutz, and I hate to buy online without having handled one. But I should be able to check out the 504 & CZ.

Is the consensus here that a new Kimber HS is too risky these days?

On the CZ's - does the Varmint hold a little nicer for offhand shooting with the extra forward weight compared to the American?

Thanks Guys.

[powding]

LH2,
Let me give a partial response about the HS's. Many silhouette shooters eagerly awaited the arrival of this rifle. It was three years from time of announcement to actual production. The earliest models (I think the first 100) were made with Shilen barrels and they all are amazingly accurate, however, from the beginning the HS has had QC problems like the bolt stop breaking, problems with magazine fit and feed, etc. The worst and biggest problem has to do with the barrels. It truly seems that about half of the owners I know have returned their guns because they cannot get the accuracy expected from a $700+ firearm. Mine was sent back twice.

The frustration is worsened by the fact that the rifle has an excellent trigger and shoulders so well. It is these outstanding features that causes owners to endure rigorous cleaning procedures and/or pursue the one and only make, model and lot number of ammo that will work in their gun.

Owning an HS can be a __________________ experience.

1. endearing
2. head banging
3. box of fruit loops
4. all the above

BTW, after three factory barrels I decided to put an aftermarket barrel on mine and now it shoots and fits me better than any Anschutz, Sako, or Remington I have ever owned. Going this route will cost you an extra $350 over the price of the rifle.

You are right about the need to handle, shoulder, shoot a variety of rifles before you decide on one. Keep in mind the shop owner wants to sell you a gun, your fellow shooters want you to make the choice that is best for you. Take your time and make the right choice.

powding

[nomad]

Set triggers...

I just got off the phone with 'Mike' in technical at CZUSA.
According to him, the set function on all their rifle triggers can be locked out by simply screwing the set adjusting screw in until it will not function.
He said that you cannot adjust the set function heavy enough to meet the 2 lb limit when set.
He also told me that locking the set out will not affect the standard pull.

I discussed that with Greg and was told that that makes it simple: If you want to use a 453 (or whatever), you just have to have the set function locked out in order to meet the 2 lb Hunter requirement and make your trigger fully legal.

[LH2]

A couple quick questions.

Does Sako no longer make a .22 sporter? I can't find one on the website.

I found the Briley Hunters are $895. I see they're Ruger 77/22 based. What makes a Briley a Briley, and how accurate are they? Is the barrel and action any different from Ruger?

I'm intrigued by the Briley since it's a nice looking American-made option.

Looks like the Cooper Squirrel rifle is $1500, that's getting up there, but I'm starting to look at the start up costs differently. I figure I'm gonna love the sport and upgrade scope & rifle anyway, so why not do it right the first time.

In comparison, I didn't bat an eye at spending $5k on a custom titanium bicycle a few years ago, so I know quality costs and you often get what you pay for. Plus, pride of ownership is a nice thing to have.

[nomad]

I have a Sako Finnfire that I'd sell.
Finnfires are very accurate and have a very fast lock time.
Their shortcomings are mostly in the trigger. (IMO the Sako trigger is not equivalent to the Anschutz or Krico...although they are probably as good as just about anything else that's been discussed.)
Mine has a 4-16X Weaver on it right now.
I'm not going to try to tell you that it's as good a package as an Anschutz 1712 -- but it's significantly less costly.
PM me if you're interested.

[ajj]

Sako has indeed stopped making the Finnfire. They have a new switch-barrel, synthetic stocked rifle which is, in my opinion, not the best looking piece I ever saw. I liked my Finnfire. It was a little muzzle-light.

[dwl]

LH2

You might consider checking out the Remington 451S or 451T. I've shot shot the following: Winchester 52, Marlin 25, CZ 452, NS 522, Anschutz 1407/MS.

The Anschutz is certainly the best but the Remington 541S with the trigger set to 2#s can be shot in both Hunter and Standard Class. My 541S was a BR50 gun and is outstandingly accurate with SK Standard Plus ammo. I need to try it with some of the better ammo.

Marv Pearson is building some custom guns using the same action with custom barrels, stocks and Anschutz triggers. I want a Mark Pharr stock so I'll have him build me one as soon as I've got the money.

Other than the Remington and Anschutz, I've tried the Kimber HS and like it very much. Some guns from a couple of years ago had some extraction problems. The ones I've seen lately that didn't have any problem at all. The triggers were very nice single stage triggers and the stock is better for the game than the Remington. They're available and mid range priced.

The CZ 452 Varmint and Silhouette are showing up regularly on the range but they all need a trigger job. I adjusted my trigger as much as possible but the sear engagement was too deep giving it a creepy pull that cost me points. I was on the verge of doing a trigger job when the Remington 541 was offered to me. Another shooter had his trigger done and it's much more shootable than mine.

At the low end, I'm having good success starting beginning shooters on Marlin 25s and 925s. Some snobs might laugh about the Marlin but I think it's a good beginner gun. I can get the trigger down to a safe 2 to 2 1/2 lbs with little creep. That's what makes it work so well. Is it up to an Anschutz? No, but with a decent scope they shoot surprisingly well for 1/10 the price.

What ever gun you get you need a decent scope. That is the biggest problem our bigginers have, paying money for a good scope.

Once you've got your gun and scope it would really help to get some coaching on stance, mental focus and practice techniques. I didn't get much and had to search for the literature. Some kind of coaching will go a long way tword making your shooting successful and enjoyable.

Opinions are worth what they cost. Go have a good time shooting.

dwl

[LH2]

Thinking about just going for a 1712... I like nice stuff. And, I'll know the weakness is 100% shooter.

So whats a FWT, and how do I know which 17XX to shop for?

[eeleater]

The 1712 is the one to be looking for. It is the FWT

One reason is that it has a two stage trigger which can be adjusted to hold just over 2 lb total, but have the first stage being part of that weight. For example- if adjusted to a 1 1/4 lb first stage and a 3/4 second stage it will fire at 2 lb total weight- but after you learn to "hold" the first stage weight the trigger pull weight will "feel" like 3/4 lb.

You will get debate on how light you want to try and make the second stage feel- as the lighter you go the greater the chance you will not "feel" when you get to the second stage and fir the gun.

The 1712 also has a good reputation for out of the box accuracy- which is true of Anchutz in general...

[chunter]

eeleater,

I don't think the 1712 is the FWT unless it has the McMillian Graphite stock on it.

The 1712 listed on Anschutz website is the 1712 SIL (Silhouette) which has the wood stock and the two stage trigger.
However, it looks like Champions Choice that is still puting the 1712's into the McMillian stock and then stamping them with the FWT? I don't know if these rifles have the two-stage trigger in them or not? Or if they are the older 1712 rifles without the two-stage.
http://www.champchoice.com/shop.php?co ... tion=clear

don't know for sure, just curious.

Casey

[GeoNLR]

For what it's worth, all the wood stocked 1712's that I have seen have FWT stamped on top of them... These were factory stocked guns in the box w/ the red label on them from Anschutz on the barrel proving that they are free floated...

[LH2]

Is the McMillan stock a good thing, or is factory wood better? The barrel is free floated either way, right?

[genphideaux]

McMillians are generally 6 to 8 oz lighter that a wood stock, a Pharr stock is 20 to 24 oz lighter, so it is a matter of do you like a heavy rifle for stability or do you want less fatique. For me I'm right on the max weight of 8lbs 8 oz.,

They should all be free floated barrels