Hunter Pistol and the Future

Smallbore, pistol cartridge, centerfire - revolvers, pistols, Contenders, etc...
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jmdavis45
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Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by jmdavis45 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:07 pm

Any hope?


Do you guys think that there is any hope to revitalize Hunter Pistol? It appears on a steep decline and Field Pistol is right behind it. I'm not exactly sure why people prefer to shoot other games at the same targets, but they clearly do.

What suggestions can you think of to improve attendence?

glen ring
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by glen ring » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:35 pm

We tried it along side our CLA matches and had no luck getting shooters. I think when someone shows up with their plain old revolver or Buckmark and they see the highpower scopes on the Contenders they get discouraged...I certainly did.

We won't offer it again.
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twidpa
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by twidpa » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:06 pm

Too specialized. It is a sport using firearms mainly good for that sport. If you outlawed single shot handguns you would get more shooters.
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jmdavis45
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by jmdavis45 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:25 pm

Ok let's go through this. What is the cost of a Model39 with Marbles peep, now add in a pistol caliber carbine with same and finally a center fire for Cowboy lever action. 3 games, 3 guns, 3 calibers with two to load for, with a used cost of what $1250-1500 for the guns and they are specialized as well.

Now let's look at the four games of hunter pistol 22 and cf, scope and irons. My Contender frame cost me $250, my scoped hornet barrel $150 +125 for a Nikon ProStaff scope. My other hornet barrel was used with taco sights for $160. My scope 22 barrel was $125 + $125 for the Nikon and my iron sight 22 barrel was $165. So to shoot all of the hunter pistol games I have $1100 in the shooting equipment for 4 games. Only 2 calibers. That seems pretty cheap to me. If I decide to shoot only 22 I can shoot both games for a little more than a good Model 39.

Now I will admit, I like pistols. I'm as likely to hunt with one as a shotgun or a rifle and I've used my scoped contender pistol barrels to hunt squirrel and Turkey.

It's got to be something beside the equipment because the cost to shoot Hunter Pistol is not that different from Lever action at the same targets on the same days.

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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by DJA » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:56 am

As a pistol shooter who switched to rifle but is starting to really miss pistol, I've thought about this, too. I don't think it's a cost thing. Heck, I've seen people be very competitive shooting all 4 matches with just an iron sighted smallbore Contender. I think the "too specialized" reputation is all about the taco hold. Yes by the rules, taco hold is a legitimate pistol stance, but it creates a huge advantage for break action pistols over revolvers, in particular, and most semi-automatics. I believe new shooters would prefer to shoot what they've got rather than think they have to add a Contender to their collection to be at all competitive. (IIRC, every gun on the line at the last two nationals was a Contender.) Some ideas to even things up again: Outlaw the taco hold? Create a revolvers only division (who doesn't own or want a revolver?!) Create a whole new sport of "Cowboy Two Gun"--engage half the targets with your lever gun and the other half with a revolver (no costumes required.)

glen ring
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by glen ring » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:15 am

I don't think it's the cost thing either. I agree that to make it more popular the rules need to change. It seems like the shooting sports start out great and are practical...and then little by little things get altered for higher scores. I once asked some IHMSA shooters if they thought they could ever shoot a live animal when hunting by using the creedmore , laying down leg thing. Standing revolver looks like fun, but I'm not sure about using a 500 dollar k-22 against a freedom arms costing a couple of grand. I think that once a sport starts to decline rapidly it just dwindles away. ICORE looks like fun and they have three classes for basic to unlimited revolvers and the distances are close.
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cedestech
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by cedestech » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:45 am

Shot HP for a couple years, several Contenders, multiple calibers....

It's not the equipment, if you enjoy something you'll pay what it take to play the game. Outlawing Contenders would be the abrupt end to what little participation there is.

It just wasn't my cup of tea. I like the idea of it but prefer rifles. It is what it is...

jmdavis45
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by jmdavis45 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:19 pm

cedestech wrote:Shot HP for a couple years, several Contenders, multiple calibers....

It's not the equipment, if you enjoy something you'll pay what it take to play the game. Outlawing Contenders would be the abrupt end to what little participation there is.

It just wasn't my cup of tea. I like the idea of it but prefer rifles. It is what it is...

I can understand that. I sort of feel the same about lever guns. I may just be a dedicated single shot shooter for everything except High Power Rifle and Bullseye.

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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by twidpa » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:19 pm

"Ok let's go through this. What is the cost of a Model39 with Marbles peep, now add in a pistol caliber carbine with same and finally a center fire for Cowboy lever action. 3 games, 3 guns, 3 calibers with two to load for, with a used cost of what $1250-1500 for the guns and they are specialized as well."

I can easily use the 3 levers for hunting most things without feathers. If I was to take the contender hunting it would just be to say I did it. Never heard the comment about lever gun being specialized before. I throw the hooey flag on that one. The contender and hunter pistol silhouette need each other to prosper as the rules currently stand. Maybe speed up the time for 5 shots?
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by ole95 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:12 pm

I don't see it as cost I would think hunter pistol is about as cheap of shooting sport as you could do.
I've talked to a few people that have tried it and the number 1 complaint "it's to hard" yep it is hard and yes it can be demoralizing. My 1st score I ever shot was 6 out of 40. It can also be rewarding. This game is for people looking for a challenge. Most people today looking for something that money can by them a good score. Enjoy it while it last were a drying breed

cedestech
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by cedestech » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:39 pm

ole95 wrote: the number 1 complaint "it's to hard" yep it is hard and yes it can be demoralizing.
That. People want a "easy" challenge today....

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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by glen ring » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:50 am

I've thought about the decline in shooting sports and how popular they were in the late 80's and early 90's.

When I shot PPC, there was the GREAT Phillip Hemphill from the Miss. HP. Phillip would be telling jokes on the line seconds prior to the course of fire. He was a hoot and usually the winner. He reminds me a lot of Preston Gibson.

When I shot Action Pistol it was Brain Enos, John Pride and a few others. They were great champions and great ambassadors of that sport...just very nice, down to earth guys.

When I shot IPSC there was the million dollar man, Rob Leathem, Jerry Barnhart, Brain Enos...to name just a few. They cut up a lot and were fun to watch.

I guess in HP silhouette there was David Tubb...I have never shot with him, but I read he was the best.

Jerry Miculak is the revolver king and he usually draws a crowd when he shoots.

Gene Sears was THE man with a shotgun in my neck of the woods for decades and just a darn nice family.

Lack of publicity and sponsorship may be two of the reasons some sports are not flourishing.

No easy answers I guess.

We Oklahoma shooters shoot for fun and we cut up a LOT, on and off the line at a match. I LOVE having 9 animals down, turning to someone and betting them a coke I get the 10th. I guess just keep shooting what you like but above all HAVE SOME FUN !
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jmdavis45
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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by jmdavis45 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:04 am

Phil H. won the National Bullseye Championship last year representing the over 60 crowd. He is one heck of a competitor. I shoot Bulleye with other former PPC competitors as well. I've also shot USPSA in long ago times with Todd Jarrat.

But there's a pattern that I see in people who win. That pattern is accuracy. Accurate shooters get fast quicker than fast shooters get accurate. With silhouette, you have plenty of time to shoot. But the shooting especially for small bore is precise. Using a 10 or 12 inch barrel regardless of sighting system or hold to hit targets that are the same size used by people shooting rifles is more difficult.

Maybe there is no hope for any revitalization. I had though about shooting the match with my High Standard and an ultra dot. Though that combination costs more than either a Model 39 or a Contender with a scope. It does look more "normal" though.

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Re: Hunter Pistol and the Future

Post by StandingTall » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:47 am

I shoot in the IHMSA standing category in Big Bore, Field Pistol and Small Bore. For me, it's about the challenge. Today's generation doesn't like a challenge, they want an easy and immediate gratification. They are not willing to be patient and take the time to practice to be good. Once the baby boomers and older generation X die off, the sport will be gone. I don't believe it's about cost, either.

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