Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Front-stuffers, smoke-belchers and .22 BPCR!
DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:05 pm

Glen this weekend , we ran an informal 22 bpcr match ahead of the Eclipse. One of the folks that was here is a bpcrs shooter , that would like to make the jump to 22bpcr, but he spent that money on a bpcrs rifle for his wife... So he brought a Henry lever gun, he had mounted an MVA vernier sight with a Lyman 17 on the front. With a bit of ammo testing and some practicing, I think that rifle would be capable of shooting AAA maybe better.
So you may be onto something with your lever gun's mixed with the 22bpcr match. It could become a monster of it's own.

User avatar
Tlee
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:55 am
Location: Where Bob Wills is still the King
Contact:

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by Tlee » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:37 am

DonM wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:05 pm
Glen this weekend , we ran an informal 22 bpcr match ahead of the Eclipse. One of the folks that was here is a bpcrs shooter , that would like to make the jump to 22bpcr, but he spent that money on a bpcrs rifle for his wife... So he brought a Henry lever gun, he had mounted an MVA vernier sight with a Lyman 17 on the front. With a bit of ammo testing and some practicing, I think that rifle would be capable of shooting AAA maybe better.
So you may be onto something with your lever gun's mixed with the 22bpcr match. It could become a monster of it's own.

DonM-

That's no surprise to me at all.

Although I like my Marlin 39s for SBCR I also own 3 Henry Frontiers and am responsible for the club's 4 loaner Henry leverguns, and all of them are pretty much 2MOA guns with any decent 40gr 22LR ammo (AutoMatch, Blazer, CCI MiniMags, etc). I've even shot 2 of mine with Fed 36g Value Pack bulk stuff and they're just as accurate to 75, falling off in accuracy only slightly at 100.

With good target ammo, I could see them being very practical for 22BPCR TYPE of matches.

Just curious, what ready/fire time period increments are being used for these combo matches? Seems to me if you have both the 22bpcr type match going on the line at the same time as a Cowboy Rifle/Hunter Pistol or 22 scoped smallbore match, the different ready/fire periods wouldn't be practical. Also, the regular BPCR times seem to be way long/overkill for even the 22bpcr matches. What's the consensus?

:ymcowboy:

- Tim

DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:16 am

Tim, the ready period is 15 seconds for the 22bpcr. This shooter was single loading his Henry.. I wasn't terribly surprised by the way that rifle shot, I was surprised there was an MVA base that would be the proper angle for the Henry tang.
If you can get ahold of some try some SK Magazine in your rifle our little Frontier just loves the stuff.

User avatar
Grizz61
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:31 am

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by Grizz61 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:05 am

Tim,

To overcome the time issues. We have the Cowboy rifle shoot 60 round matches. That way they shoot 3 sets of 2 minutes with 15 second ready's and take a little time between. That way they are shooting for 6:45 of the 22 BPCR's 8:15. We also call early cease fires once the 22 BPCR is finished.
Grizz

Let's shoot some STEEL!!

User avatar
psteiger
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:45 am
Location: Friendswood, Texas

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by psteiger » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:11 pm

can I shoot my BSA 12/15 in this?

User avatar
BrentD
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by BrentD » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:15 pm

In a sanctioned match, no. But if the match director is making exceptions for things like lever guns than a Martini is certainly a reasonable non-legal gun to use. But you won't be a fully legal competitor. (Martinis lack a hammer, among other things).

User avatar
Tlee
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:55 am
Location: Where Bob Wills is still the King
Contact:

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by Tlee » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:51 pm

Grizz61 wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:05 am
Tim,

To overcome the time issues. We have the Cowboy rifle shoot 60 round matches. That way they shoot 3 sets of 2 minutes with 15 second ready's and take a little time between. That way they are shooting for 6:45 of the 22 BPCR's 8:15. We also call early cease fires once the 22 BPCR is finished.
Grizz-

IF I hear you correct.... Multiple/overlapping ready and fire commands is what I envision you're saying? If so, sounds a bit too confusing for my feeble/serial task oriented mind to grasp. Or am I missing something?

Why not use the smallbore rifle timing (5 shots in a 15sec ready/2minute, 30sec fire period, IIRC)? Seems like that'd be simpler.... Or does it really take that much longer to shoot since some are single loading (those with "real 22BPCR guns").

Thanks,

:ymcowboy:

-Tim

DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Unless someone is waiting out conditions, or took a bunch of sighters, most 22 bpcr regulation shooters finish the 10 shot strings, at the 6-7 minute mark.

User avatar
BrentD
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by BrentD » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:14 pm

It is important to remember that this sport got a lot of it's initial get-up-and-go from people that would mount Crosno or Shaver liners in their Big Bore BPRCs and shoot them in this game. Those guns are good bit slower than a purpose-built .22 bpcr. Perhaps the seemingly long relay times should be maintained to keep those folks from being seriously disadvantaged. Also, silhouette matches are not races. CASS is the place for that I believe. But in our sports, we take a more dignified approach and deciding how long to wait for a condition is part of what makes it all fun. Run and gun or sit tight and wait for something that might never come. That's what makes this game interesting to me.

DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:28 pm

I sure wouldn't want to see the relay time shortened up. Sometimes trying to get the sight setting on the turkeys and rams can take 5 or more sighters, that cuts down on the score time considerably. It's not uncommon to get the last round off when running a liner with just seconds before time runs out.

User avatar
Tlee
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:55 am
Location: Where Bob Wills is still the King
Contact:

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by Tlee » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:57 am

DonM wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:28 pm
I sure wouldn't want to see the relay time shortened up. Sometimes trying to get the sight setting on the turkeys and rams can take 5 or more sighters, that cuts down on the score time considerably. It's not uncommon to get the last round off when running a liner with just seconds before time runs out.
Thanks Don, that's good to know... I just couldn't imagine any rimfire needing a full BPCR time sequence.

Next question; Is it primarily the turkey and ram DISTANCES that cause this issue? Would the aforementioned smallbore (scoped) silhouette timeframes be adequate for the chicken & pig distances?

Reason I ask is I'm considering holding a "shortened distance scaled course" version of this, using 1/5th scale targets (OR a combination of 1/5th scale and 2/5 or 3/8th scale targets) to fit my club's 100meter range.... Rimfire calibers are restricted from our 200yard range currently and, if I'm to lobby the BoD for a rule/match variance, I need to show the interest & justification is there using the limited distance 1st.

Thanks again,

:ymcowboy:

- Tim

DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:29 am

Tim I think it''s the chickens that serious shooters take the time on. But the rams and the turkeys can take some time on the swingers due to wind, but once you've found the wind correction, they don't take longer than anything else.
8 minutes is not a very long time to fire 10 rounds for score plus the sighters, and most folks will shoot between 3 and 5 sighters.

glen ring
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1084
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:04 pm

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by glen ring » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:45 pm

We are seriously getting our thoughts together for this match. We are going to invite some BPCR 22 shooters to shoot our CLA course with CLA rules to see how the guns compare. We would hope that the scores are comparable so a shooter can fire one rifle in both matches. Standing is MUCH harder no matter how good the rifle is.
Just Be Nice **==

DonM
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie

Re: Combined 22bpcr and CLA

Post by DonM » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:36 pm

There's a huge difference in the scopes. 22bpcr scopes are of the Malcolm/unertl type, and need to be reset after each shot. There is also a 3/4 in tube and no more than 1 inch objective on the bpcr scopes.
The weight of most 22bpcr rifles will be pushing 9 lb+, so holding one up for 5 shots in 2 minutes is going to be a challenge, having to break position to load each shot and not just cycle the lever, the typical 22 lever gun isn't going to have.

Post Reply