Awards question, your opinion..

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21step
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Awards question, your opinion..

Post by 21step »

I'm looking for some opinions about awards. We are coming up on our 60 rd club championship and I'm wondering if the usual keychain or shot glass is worth my time.

How many people would rather shoot for half the price vs. getting a little pin or keychain?
How about primers, would 100 primers be better than a mug?

Looking for ideas here, right now I'm thinking about making the fee just enough to cover the cost of the setters. That means no $ for awards though... what to do?

Your opinion?
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Bob Mc Alice »

This topic is right up my alley, been there done that. When I took over as HP MD eleven years ago the match fee was $18. for both guns..2x40 shot match. Our state match fee was $65.00 I think. We awarded class winners about half of their entry fee per rifle. My club asks for around 50% of all entry fees collected. The MD then also tried knives, fancy trophies and other unique awards.

About 6-7 years ago gas was expensive, long drive to the range, and attendance was at an all time low.

I decided to restructure pricing to attract the shooters back to the range. I went with a $10.00 two gun entry entry fee and no awards at all for our club level approved matches. All fees go right to the club. No one complained and our numbers grew stronger.

At our state HP match I awarded class winners with about half of their $35.00 entry fee. The MW got an extra few bucks more. This has been well received by our group. No other types of awards at all. I tried the trophy and trinket thing and it was a pain. People like cash. period.

This last weekend match was different. One of our SB match directors had excess operating funds in his account. He donated almost $400.00 to my HP state match for door prizes. We bought eight one pound cans of popular propellant and a half dozen bricks of primers. Every one drew a prize at random. After some trading between individuals all went home with stuff needed to make more ammo. Oh yeah..Sierra donated a five box bullet coupon. The guy that drew that grand prize was real happy. Thank you Sierra Bullets!!!

My thanks to Dave Bonner for this generous donation. It helped make this match great.
Last edited by Bob Mc Alice on Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by cslcAl »

Bob, do you have target setters at your approved matches?

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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Bob Mc Alice »

No, Al....we set our own targets for monthly approved matches. Only once a year for the state match do I recruit club members for target setters. They must complete a yearly mandatory work bond requirement or pay an extra $100. towards their yearly club dues. Funny, 98% would rather pay than work. :roll:

Prior to me running the matches the shooters had to set their own targets even at the state championship. Our guys are spoiled now and would not show up if they had to set up at the state. :)
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Bob Mc Alice »

Come on people, this is a good topic to expand on. I could use some conversation from the family after the weekend we just experienced.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Grizz61 »

Frankly I am very interested in reading this discussion myself. since taking over the local Cowboy Matches this has been a big question on my mind. How to increase monthly turnout and increase awards? For a 3 day 3 gun State Match MW, and Overall Aggregate trophies in the past have been exceptional, but the class awards leave something to be desired in my opinion. Granted Cash always works well. Bob you also add the "Money Shot" twist which I personally like, and am looking to incorporate into my State Match next year.

I would really like to hear form both Normal "Match Winners (Master and AAA)" and "Class Winners (B through AA)" what would you rather get? Cash or some sort of trophy.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by OldRanger »

Our matches basically mirror Bobs. Monthly matches are cheap, no target setters no awards. Our turnouts can be pretty good, I don't think awards would increase turnout.

For the regional Iron Man we give out trophys. This years were glass (plexiglass?)animal silhouettes for most, bigger better trophy for overall winner. Everyone got at least one prize off of the prize steps, and one person got a new spotting scope.

For our 'state' match its 60 shots and fees were $90 for four guns. Winners of classes (and 2nd, 3rd etc based on numbers of shooters) got cash. Overall winner got more cash. We had target setters that got a daily fee and tips. Side note: Thanks everyone for your generosity, we got $780 in tips for our young, exhausted, dancing target setters.
I buy all my guns from t-rex. He's a small arms dealer.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Bob Mc Alice »

Some questions for you, 21step. How much are you paying these target setters ? How many of them? Paid per hour or fixed rate each for the job? What is your match fee? How many shooters do you expect? One or two day match?

I have been to many matches around the country and have boxes full of plaques, trophies, certificates and various art work type awards. The art work ones are nice, on display and and get dusted off when needed. The boxes are just taking up space in my house. I do not need or want more trophies. I have more knives than I know what to do with. Give me the cash equivalent to buy loading components so I can come back next year and have fun shooting with you.

We work hard to put these matches on for YOU. We want you to be satisfied with our method of recognition.

Oh yeah. This conversation is open to ANYONE!!!!! :roll:
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by WFUinCO »

I like the way that Bob structures the monthly HP matches (low fee, no prizes), we all spend quite a bit to participate in these matches, and for myself the enjoyment is in the match, not small awards.

Bob also puts a $2 cash bounty on the 8th animal as an extra incentive, and it is fun trying to take his money!

For the state level, regional and national matches the extra monetary or small award is nice, but spending alot of money on trophy type awards is not necessary in my mind. Having a few is cool to show off, but loses the appeal as they collect dust, unless they are a unique artsy-fartsy type of trophy that my wife would let me put in the living room. Most of my old pool league trophies have been relageted to the dusty corners of the basement.

Receiving ammo at our weekly small bore matches is very good, ammo is as good as cash!

Competitions with high dollar entry fees and high dollar payouts do not motivate shooters to participate in a sport for pure enjoyment, scare away new participants, and burn out those that place in the middle.

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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by 21step »

Good ideas here guys. I've got some deciding to do.

To answer your question Bob, we employ 4 setters for a match and for 40 rds they get paid $25. I am thinking of paying them $35 for the 60 rd match.
It is a one day match, with our average gun count around 24 or so.

The regular monthly fees are: Adult 1 gun = $13, two = $22
Senior = $10, two = $20
Junior = $6 , two = $12

These are not my numbers, I am continuing what was, where they come from I don't know.

Last month we had 18 guns, after we paid the setters the club made $41. We have some range workers that work off their entry fee. I am all for this because there are a lot of other places they could be rather than setting targets and prepping the range for other shooters.

I like the idea of cash prizes but I also don't want to stand in front of the board and explain where all this money goes when we bring in so little compared to the scatter guns guys.

Decisions, decisions......
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

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Your numbers are similar to mine. We had only eleven shooters each day last weekend. Five regulars had good reasons for not showing up. (i ask for written excuses from their wives) My lowest state match turnout was 2008 with only seven showing up. Most was 2011 at 18. After deducting the NRA shooter fee and a dozen cans of cheap spray paint my net for the club was about $180.00
They never hassle me and are grateful for every dime they get. They buy our cheap range trucks, gas them up, repair them when needed and purchase new targets when needed. They spent 45K on getting the firing line covered. We got it made in the shade. 8) We have plenty of other shooting disciplines at CRC that generate tons more money than HP silhouette.

Back in the late 20th century we could get up to 25-28 guys for a state match. Not any more for many reasons.

Almost forgot...I handed out $176.00 for the two buck "money shots". The damn reliable prairie winds took the weekend off. For Bonner, well it was like taking candy from a baby. :wink:
Last edited by Bob Mc Alice on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by 21step »

The most guns we've had since I've been doing it is (I think) 34. I would like to see more shooters come but everyone I try to recruit is shocked by the number of rounds fired for one match, or they think it is too "impossible". A lot of them barely shoot 10 rounds a year and think an off hand shot is a waste of ammo.

The thing about the awards that puzzles me is the guy that keeps placing and keeps taking the pins. I know some of these guys must have at least two dozen pins and they keep coming up and getting their pin.

I may put a question and opinion paper out at the match to see what people really want.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Emietenkorte »

I've been reading the comments on this thread and have been trying to formulate a response that doesn't make me sound like a complete newbie but as a person who has only been shooting silhouette for about a year and a half I guess I am so here goes....

I know there are a lot of people on this forum that have been shooting silhouette for a long time or have shot competitively over a long and successful shooting career who really could not give a hoot about another award sitting on the shelf. However, I remember back to the very first shooting award I received in this wonderful sport and it really gave me a feeling of accomplishment, it made me want to come back and see what else I could achieve. Yes shooting itself can be a reward and a lot of fun but not everyone is intrinsically motivated... especially younger shooters who have not yet been hooked by the sheer joy of getting together with a bunch of great people to shoot and have fun. If silhouette is to survive we need to bring in the younger shooters and sometimes that takes an extrinsic motivator such as an award or at least something to take home to be proud of, and leave them wanting more.

I have been to quite a few matches where I have heard the older shooters talk about what they "used to do at these matches" and I just think, how cool that would be if they still did that. Many competitors especially older shooters have been doing it so long that it doesn't mean anything to them anymore, but for us newer shooters, we don't get to have that experience to pass on to the next generation. As an educator, and perhaps some would still call me a young guy I get to see and experience what motivates my students. For sports it's the state title or the league championship, something they can be proud of. Even if they don't win they have something to work towards and it brings them back. Video games these days have achievement levels that can be unlocked by completing certain tasks, and i'm sure most of us know how kids can be addicted to video games... it gives them something to work towards as pointless as it may seem sometimes. Even my music students work to become the best at what they do and want to be that first chair. Kids are competitive and if they find something they are good at they want to be the best at it.... I don't think silhouette should be any different. Yes I know a lot of the same shooters are the ones winning the awards but again it gives someone something to work towards. If awards were pointless then why have Grand Slams? Why have National Records? They are all achievements that people are working towards and i'm sure there are very few that would say "whatever" to earning a grand slam or setting a National Record. They may play it cool and be humble but i'm sure they are excited on the inside.

I guess the other side of the coin is how to pay for it. Awards can be expensive, absolutely no doubt about it, but if they can be seen as an investment in the sport of silhouette to keep shooters coming and trying to achieve their next 5/10/15 pin, their next classification change, their next award/state/national title then I think it is definitely worth it. I think if the veteran shooters, we'll call them role models stop caring then it will be reflected in the younger shooters and since they have been shooting for way less time it will be easier for them to give up the sport. The excitement of shooting must be passed on!!

I'm not trying to sound like someone who is just in it to win it, trust me I have been hooked on the sheer enjoyment of knocking those little funny animals off those rails since my very first match (even after the frustration of them dancing around my shots sometimes). It is just my humble opinion that awards can be a great way to keep the sport going especially for the next generation of shooters and even the current generations.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by Grizz61 »

Very good points to consider. Awards do generate excitement, and excitement is key to generating new interest and new shooters.
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Re: Awards question, your opinion..

Post by jbolt »

We don't do high power at our club but this is what we do for small bore.

We give prizes for the over all match winner and for each class if there are 4 or more shooters in the class, if less than 4 we will combine classes. M/AAA, A/B etc. I don't separate hunter and standard class and no one has complained.

Our monthly match prize structure is match winner gets $10 and a bottle of Martinelli's sparkling cider. Class winner gets $5 and a bottle of Martinelli's sparkling cider. If we have more than 6 in a class we give out a bottle of Martinelli's sparkling cider for second place. Juniors always get something, pins, cider or soda.

Everyone seems to like the cider. I have had several people give back the cash but no one has ever given back the cider except one gentleman who could not take it home because he told his wife he was doing something else. :))

We also have one turkey in bank 2 painted red. If you knock that down you get a soda. (a little extra pressure :D :YMDEVIL: )

Another thing we do is give out a monthly most improved award. You are eligible if you shot the month before. The shooter with the most improvement over their previous months score takes home the 'Ram" (a wooden ram sculpture). They then must place it somewhere of prominence in their home, take a picture and put the picture, signed and dated, in the box with the ram and bring it back the next month. Newer shooters take this home more than veteran shooters.

Our annual Thanksgiving match is our biggest. We have our" Can Slam". similar to the red turkey but the yellow chicken gets you a can of corn, pink pig = can of Spam, red turkey = can of cranberry sauce and black ram = can of black olives.

Match winner gets a 20# turkey, pumpkin pie, squash and cranberry sauce
1st in class gets a 12# turkey
2nd in class gets a pumpkin pie
3rd in class gets a squash or stuffing

We always have left over canned goods so everyone goes home with something.

Jay
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