2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

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OnaginOffagin
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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by OnaginOffagin » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:12 am

Good gawdamighty! I will be attending Nationals this year, and I'm old, white, and cranky! In order to forestall any rules challenges regarding me personally, I have decided to shoot the match naked. I've checked the rule book and can find nothing that restricts naked shooting, so I think the bare facts show me to be on solid ground. The only possible advantage to me is that the competitors both to the right and left of me might be struck blind....but that's the breaks of the game. My only possible issue is .... what kind of sunscreen to use.....
"Honor, Respect, Service, Humility....." (Lt. Gen. Hal Moore 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry)

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by twidpa » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:29 am

"what kind of sunscreen to use....."
:-bd :-bd Gold spray paint.
t

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by Jerry G » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:33 am

I'm leaning to Arctic White spray paint. It would look great on you Mel. =))

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by mordecai » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:58 am

Jason wrote:I'm starting to wonder where this site admin's line is on allowing BS started by the same individual repeatedly.
SOP is to wait for complaints unless the matter offends Steelchicken's sensibilities to which we have very few... B-)
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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by dhatch » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:31 am

I am traumatized !!!! I am fighting for all I am worth to keep any imagies of OnagainOffagain applying said sunscreen. =)) :shock: :shock: :roll: @-) :ympray:
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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by OnaginOffagin » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:45 am

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
"Honor, Respect, Service, Humility....." (Lt. Gen. Hal Moore 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry)

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by Snake » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:54 pm

Naked shooting by an old white dude? That should be a limp spectacle ....and somewhat disturbing....and perhaps gender insensitive. But a screen (not just a goo type screen) -----a real screen would be prudent B-) And the claim of being 'cranky' also gives one pause :ymdevil:

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by GTS » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:36 am

As Jason mentioned in an earlier post, I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I do have a comment. If the intent was to protect a boo boo on a finger, seems like a Band-Aid or piece of adhesive tape would have worked as well. I don't recall anything in the rules about Band-Aids....Just sayin'

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by JWebster » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:24 pm

To respond to all of Jason's comments would be more than what it is worth.

Some are here.....
Someone got caught cheating.. again.
Right, like I am a perpetual cheater. It is very unfair of you to state here I ever intentionally cheated.

<br />
In the statement from the NRA, it clearly says that the "glove" should not have been allowed and was a violation of the rules.
Obviously you did not read the findings of the NRA because that was never stated. Items 5 and 7 are applicable.
<br />
The competitor is only not disqualified because the competitor should have been given a warning not to use the "glove" and given a chance to stop cheating before being completely disqualified from the match.
More proof you did not read the NRA findings. The Jury's decision was overturned because it was a jury that was not within the rules. That Jury broke the rules, Read Item 2 in the NRA decision.
<br />
The competitor then tries to smear everyone else involved in this to deflect attention from habitual cheating on his own website and here on SteelChickens,
I am not trying to smear anyone, I am stating the truth and anyone can make up their own minds as to if it was really fair or not. What part of what I wrote is false? Also, I have not been able to write anything here until now, so I do not know why you are making false statements about anything I wrote here.
<br />

Now, with that said I think it's a great thing that has happened here. It's now completely obvious to everyone here that Jerry Webster cheated, and did so knowingly.
Who is wanting to smear peoples reputations? I wore the glove through two matches. People new I was wearing it. I openly spoke to some people about the reason I was wearing it. I was really sneaky about it all day.


As I said, comments so unfair it is pointless to try and discount all of them

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by JWebster » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:28 pm

GTS wrote:As Jason mentioned in an earlier post, I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I do have a comment. If the intent was to protect a boo boo on a finger, seems like a Band-Aid or piece of adhesive tape would have worked as well. I don't recall anything in the rules about Band-Aids....Just sayin'

GTS
I tried a Band-Aid in the previous match, it was ripped apart. Ironically, in preparing to wear the archery glove to protect my fingers I stripped off some padding that was on the base of the Hunter Rifle. I discovered the padding was the problem. It was grabbing hold of the skin during recoil and tearing it. I had shot a complete match since without any more problems.

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by JWebster » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Jim Beckley wrote:I was one of the three jury members. As with all jury's I was appointed not volunteered. That isn't the first time Jerry has been caught cheating at a big match. But that isn't posted on his web site is it?
I have updated my webpage just for you, it states the following:

Just for the record Mr. Beckley, yes I violated the rules before. It is an important point you brought up. Again I was not knowingly trying to cheat. I was a relatively new shooter, I believe it was 2004, Match A on the Pigs. It was a windy match and I had a boxy stock on my Anschutz 5418 MS. I switched to my hunter rifle for my next 5 targets to try and reduce the drag in the wind. Alan Kirsch thought I had changed rifles and asked me if I did. I told him honestly what I had done. There was no dramatic need for a Jury. We got together with the Match Director, Ron Caldrone, and we all decided I would lose the 5 targets I shot at with the hunting rifle. I went back to my Anschutz 5418 to conclude the match. A key point here is that it is obviously a worse offence, and without any doubt breaking the rules, and I was NOT disqualified. I shot with a completely incorrect rifle in a State Championship and was treated respectfully. I did not protest an honest and fair removal of 5 shots with an incorrect rifle.

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by JWebster » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:37 pm

For the record: How can anyone that knew that I wore that glove all day, which was recognized and talked about, see me disqualified after winning the afternoon match and think it was fair? It was 6 hours after I first wore the glove when I was disqualified. If it was such a severe offence of the rules to merit disqualification, I should have been disqualified immediately, not after winning a match.

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by OldRanger » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:49 pm

JWebster wrote:For the record: How can anyone that knew that I wore that glove all day, which was recognized and talked about, see me disqualified after winning the afternoon match and think it was fair? It was 6 hours after I first wore the glove when I was disqualified. If it was such a severe offence of the rules to merit disqualification, I should have been disqualified immediately, not after winning a match.
Well, there is nothing in the rules saying WHEN the protest has to be filed (other than within an hour of the finish of the match). If I felt I had to protest it would depend on the person. If I liked them I would tell them to knock it off and protest immediately. If I didn't like them I would let them continue to commit the violation knowing the only choice would be to disqualify them. Also if I was an ultra competitive person I might wait so the get dq'd and I win. Nothing illegal either way.

I wrote a bunch more but deleted it. Lets just say I'm not on your side JWebster. I would have voted to dq you if I was on the jury too.
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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by JWebster » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:07 pm

OldRanger wrote: Well, there is nothing in the rules saying WHEN the protest has to be filed (other than within an hour of the finish of the match). If I felt I had to protest it would depend on the person. If I liked them I would tell them to knock it off and protest immediately. If I didn't like them I would let them continue to commit the violation knowing the only choice would be to disqualify them. Also if I was an ultra competitive person I might wait so the get dq'd and I win. Nothing illegal either way.

I wrote a bunch more but deleted it. Lets just say I'm not on your side JWebster. I would have voted to dq you if I was on the jury too.
That is NOT true. The rules state:
A protest must be initiated immediately upon the occurrence of the protested incident. Failure to comply with the following procedure will automatically void the protest.


It does not state protest whenever is to your benefit, or whenever you feel like it. That is the point of not being fair. To know it, talk about it, and do nothing until I win a match is unfair, and NOT following the rules. The NRA response Item 6 is applicable for that reason.

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Re: 2016 Arizona State Championship Controversary

Post by Jason » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:48 pm

Jerry,

You are acting like it's uncommon for people to get protested when they win but no other time. That's the standard in this sport and most any sport. No one is going to protest the mid-pack shooter because the other mid-pack shooters don't care as much about whether they're 12th or 13th and the top shooters aren't worried about what a mid-pack shooter is doing. Just as with any sport, if you win you should expect more scrutiny. That's how it works.

With that said, let's just go straight to the point instead of trying to deflect and blame others for what happened after the protest was filed. Did you really not think that using that archery glove would be against the rules? Seriously? You don't get to play the newbie card here. You've been in the sport too long. I stated all the reasons that it should obviously not be allowed, which go past any consideration of it being a "glove" to the point of just cheating. As I wrote earlier, I'm glad this happened. It caused a discussion read here by many and many verbal discussions about how we can't tolerate cheating in the sport.

On a related note, I assume that you wrote all that mudslinging on your website to get publicity for what happened. You've definitely accomplished that. It was quite the topic of conversation at the last couple of big matches. You're famous in silhouette now, although likely not for the reason you'd want to be.

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