Group Size?

More expensive to feed, but worth it.
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DavidABQ
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Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Tue May 28, 2019 6:22 am

What is considered an acceptable 100 yard, 5-shot group size for HP Silhouette, 2 moa? 1 moa? Smaller yet?

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Re: Group Size?

Post by ppkny » Tue May 28, 2019 10:13 am

Curious why you would ask for 100 yd. when distances are 200 - 500 and 100 accuracy probably is not linear.
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Re: Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Tue May 28, 2019 6:01 pm

ppkny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:13 am
Curious why you would ask for 100 yd. when distances are 200 - 500 and 100 accuracy probably is not linear.
ppkny
I ask because we have a 100 yard long indoor tunnel that pretty much eliminates group size variations due to influence by moving air. I can compare group sizes from different shooting sessions with at least one variable minimized.

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Re: Group Size?

Post by dwostler » Tue May 28, 2019 8:16 pm

Fancy, I like it

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Re: Group Size?

Post by Jerry G » Wed May 29, 2019 7:22 am

You are lucky to have such a facility. I think anything under 3/4 minute would be just fine. Remember, the difference of 1/4 minute in group size makes your theoretical miss only 1/8 minute. That would be 0.7 inches at 500 M.

If you can guess your outdoor shooting conditions that well you are a master shooter. I can't even click 1/8 minute with my scopes. We keep forgetting we shoot off-hand and are too impressed with sub minute groups with out 3+ minute hold. Be happy with a 3/4 minute gun and practice good shooting habits.

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Re: Group Size?

Post by jeff59 » Wed May 29, 2019 8:02 am

Consistent .75-1.00 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards should be more than adequate for HP silhouette.

A few years ago I ran some Monte Carlo simulations to using the ram for the theoretical target and a shooter that broke the shot inside the ram 75% of the time. Then I added group size to the simulation starting with .25 MOA and going up to 2.5 MOA. The result showed that the difference between a perfect rifle, 0.00 MOA group size, and one shooting 2 MOA was about 1-2 animals per match.

The biggest improvement to scores will be reducing the size of your hold. If I remember correctly the shooter in the simulation had a 7 MOA hold and was hitting 75% of his rams. It's easier, cheaper, and improves scores more quickly reducing your hold by a couple MOA than spending time improving group size.

ppkny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:13 am
Curious why you would ask for 100 yd. when distances are 200 - 500 and 100 accuracy probably is not linear.
ppkny
Group size is very linear past 100 yards. Divergence is mostly due to environmental conditions, not the rifle or ammo.

Jeff

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Re: Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Wed May 29, 2019 8:45 am

Thank you everyone. Now I have a goal while working up a load for my Remington.
Yes, I do feel very fortunate that our gun club has a shooting tunnel. \m/

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Re: Group Size?

Post by ywltzucanrknrl » Wed May 29, 2019 11:16 am

Interesting info Jeff, thanks. The math, statistics pretty much supports the position that a person should find a decent rifle, decent ammo and practice.

With high power I was always into tinkering with the rifle and ammo and I'm sure it hurt my game more than it helped---we only have so much time to spend---I should have spent my time practicing.

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Re: Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Wed May 29, 2019 11:56 am

ywltzucanrknrl wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:16 am
Interesting info Jeff, thanks. The math, statistics pretty much supports the position that a person should find a decent rifle, decent ammo and practice.

With high power I was always into tinkering with the rifle and ammo and I'm sure it hurt my game more than it helped---we only have so much time to spend---I should have spent my time practicing.
I very much agree,. I am looking for a load that is good enough.

From this thread I am looking to get something between 1 and 3/4 now at 100 yards. Now I have a standard to measure against.

Thank you.

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Re: Group Size?

Post by ywltzucanrknrl » Wed May 29, 2019 12:07 pm

Best of luck David! Betting you get what your looking for or even better.

Kind of wonder about that tunnel. Is it well ventilated and sound dampened?

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Re: Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Wed May 29, 2019 3:43 pm

ywltzucanrknrl wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:07 pm
Best of luck David! Betting you get what your looking for or even better.

Kind of wonder about that tunnel. Is it well ventilated and sound dampened?
The shooting house portion has a fan but it is out of order so I leave the door open. You really need double hearing protection if you are shooting a high powered rifle. I usually shoot three targets, 5 shots on each target, and then walk down and change the out the targets.

I need to take some photos of the tunnel and post them here so people can see what I am talking about.

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Re: Group Size?

Post by Doodaddy » Thu May 30, 2019 6:28 am

DavidABQ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:43 pm
I need to take some photos of the tunnel and post them here so people can see what I am talking about.
Probably prettier than my tunnel. Image

Image
Image
I am NOT Danny Hatch. Image

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Re: Group Size?

Post by ywltzucanrknrl » Thu May 30, 2019 7:32 am

Very nice Doodaddy!

And to think, every time I shoot it's windy. Every day on your range would be dry and calm!

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Re: Group Size?

Post by Doodaddy » Thu May 30, 2019 8:17 am

ywltzucanrknrl wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:32 am
Very nice Doodaddy!

And to think, every time I shoot it's windy. Every day on your range would be dry and calm!
*Reasonably* dry. You'll get some drips if the rain gets hard enough, but it's only hit us once at the Coop shoot I think lol.
I am NOT Danny Hatch. Image

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Re: Group Size?

Post by DavidABQ » Fri May 31, 2019 5:30 am

Nope, not nearly as nice as yours. I will take some photos and post them of our tunnel but is us not nearly as magnificent as your shooting complex!
Very nice indeed! That looks like a great shooting facility!

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