Tough 6.5mm projectiles for rams

[killabeez]

160gr, that sounds like a plan. I might give them a try considering I am in Aus so should be able to get them pretty easily. Looks like being across the pond will work in my favour for once.

Mag length isn’t an issue for me as I have a tikka t3, so can run projectiles out to the lands with no problem if I use a modded long action mag, since all t3’s are one action length anyway.

[Bob Mc Alice]

I went out and played a few holes of golf this morning. (never have, never will) Set up my swingers, fired three rifles and 150 rounds. The last volley at the ram were 7mm Hornady 162gr. AMAX seconds pushed along by 38 grs. Varget for 2550 FPS MV. Estimated impact speed 1925 fps. All 17 hits rang it.....like a bell. (two at the horn hole) Wish I shot this well last weekend.

150gr. SMK's and 140gr.flat base pro hunter Sierra's all left nearly identical splash marks.

[ldholton]

Come on Bod open up and get some TTSX and tell us what your asscessment is

[Bob Mc Alice]

Hey there, Larry. Two years ago our club hosted a product demonstration on the silhouette range. A Savage rep showed up with a trailer full of every copy of firearm they make. Hornady supplied all the ammo, half of which was their GMX copper solid stuff in all the popular big game sizes.

We have a pile of broken used up chickens and pigs and set them up at those distances. Quite a few members showed up. Naturally, all shots fired at them were from benches. Those copper solids sure put a fairly deep dish mark on hard steel. No doubt rams would fall reliably with solids.

I am willing to do an in depth test and report back here. I will need at least 100 .284 heavy TTSX bullets for a thorough test. I will supply all propellant and primers, you send me the bullets. Deal?

[Snake]

Most all projectiles use a drawn (extruded) jacket and a lead core bonded or not. If any projectile catastrophically fails on impact as opposed to a gradual collapse consistent with its terminal velocity....de ram she no fall...maybe even no wiggle. So a hard brittle jacket isn't helpful....some boys a long time ago heated their bullets in the oven at 300 degrees for about an hour or two and raved about 'never losing a ram' thereafter.....if it was true its probably due to annealing of the jacket material and reducing its brittleness.....just a thought

[Bob Mc Alice]

As the guy that has to submit requests for target replacement, I would probably have to deny a shooter firing solids at our targets. The rams at 3/8ths thick have weak spots that may lead to cracks from more shock from harder bullets. The game played as is.....it's perfect. Use the common match projectiles and just enjoy hitting them. They do fall over most of the time.

I hope to be around to hear of the perfect game fired in HP. That persons face should be on every gun magazines front cover.

[Jason]

Has anyone fired a perfect 40/40 in a highpower match before? I've seen a 39/40 at a monthly match at Pe Ell, WA, but never heard of a 40/40, in a registered or non-registered match.

[Jim Beckley]

No one has done a perfect 40 in HP as of yet, I think Sanchez has put up acouple of 39s with a standard rifle and I believe Dennis Dadian also shot a 39 at a Cali state match, Hunter Rifle is all Sanchez with a 38 I believe, someone correct me if im wrong.

[ldholton]

[quote="Bob Mc Alice"]Hey there, Larry. Two years ago our club hosted a product demonstration on the silhouette range. A Savage rep showed up with a trailer full of every copy of firearm they make. Hornady supplied all the ammo, half of which was their GMX copper solid stuff in all the popular big game sizes.

We have a pile of broken used up chickens and pigs and set them up at those distances. Quite a few members showed up. Naturally, all shots fired at them were from benches. Those copper solids sure put a fairly deep dish mark on hard steel. No doubt rams would fall reliably with solids.

I am willing to do an in depth test and report back here. I will need at least 100 .284 heavy TTSX bullets for a thorough test. I will supply all propellant and primers, you send me the bullets. Deal? [/quote]
Yes I agree a GMX . Nosler E-tip and other EXPANDING mono's would act the same to steel. I would not shoot nothing but rams with them (to $$$$,I do hunt with them though) I would take you up on the offer of sending you some to see how they reacted on and damage to rams , you requested 7mm and this is a thread about 6.5 mm

[Bob Mc Alice]

OK..OK, your right. I don't have a 6.5 at my house. Just send me one box (50) of the .284 TTSX bullets. I will send ten down to a ram, story, pictures...the works. I will save the rest for what they do best, future elk hunts.

[whale]

Mr. McAlice,
I will send you some 150gr TTSX bullets in 7mm. I would be interested in a good 7mm-08 load for rams. Amy from Bruno's Shooting Supply hasn't received any Hornady 162gr AMAX in over a year. Also, there are no retailers near me who have any in stock or who can order some. My other option was to purchase Nosler 175gr Accubond Long Range, Sierra 175gr HPBT MatchKing or Berger 180gr Match Hybrid Target. Thanks.
Whale

[Bob Mc Alice]

Whale, I was mostly kidding about testing solid copper slugs. (Larry, still send me some..OK? ) I would really love to see one or two impact hard steel free standing RAMS at a full 500 meters... ala Werner Mehl videography style. My guess is that some of the shank would stay intact and fall to the ground, and so would the ram.

Go ahead and try those heavier match bullets on real targets...off the bench. All will fall with grace. Plain old 7mm 168 SMK's do very well for me with few losses.

If you must try those expensive solid bullets for offhand shooting, follow a safe recipe from the manufacturer. Solids produce more pressure than with bullets of lead core design.

And don't call me Mr.

[malinois]

I also have not had any issues with the 168 gr mk in 7mm.....and I shot them in a 7mm br so my velocity is no where near what Bob gets in his 7-08....I only get them up to about 2100 or so a very mild load and it slams em good.

[DanDeMan]

Most all projectiles use a drawn (extruded) jacket and a lead core bonded or not. If any projectile catastrophically fails on impact as opposed to a gradual collapse consistent with its terminal velocity....de ram she no fall...maybe even no wiggle. So a hard brittle jacket isn't helpful....some boys a long time ago heated their bullets in the oven at 300 degrees for about an hour or two and raved about 'never losing a ram' thereafter.....if it was true its probably due to annealing of the jacket material and reducing its brittleness.....just a thought

Gents,

Since I've done some work focused on heat-treating jacketed bullets for HP silhouette, I thought I'd re-share my findings. First, the lead cores must have at least 1.5% antimony for heat-treating to work. Sierra MK's used to have 3% antimony. I experimented with:

107 gr, 6mm SMK's
139 gr, 6.5mm Scenars
Sierra, 6.5mm, 155 gr long-range bullets

Back then the Scenars did not have enough antimony in the cores to heat-treat. Oh, I also tried to heat-treat Bergers, no go.

The first step in the experimentation was to determine the minimum amount of time and temp required to heat-treat the bullets. A min temp was deemed the best way to minimize bullet distortion during the heating phase. A jig was made to hold 100 bullets vertically during the entire process; from heating to quenching. After much time and effort it was determined that a 1 hour heat-soak at 400 F was optimum. The jig with the bullets was removed from the oven after 1 hour and immediately quenched in a sink full of cold tap water. It takes about 1 week for the bullet-cores to completely age-harden, so don't shot them right away.

The results were quite interesting. Proper heat-treating will produce bullets that have a considerably higher ram-knockdown ability. The non-heat-treated 6mm, 107 SMK's rang 7 out of 10 rams when the rams were hit just behind the top of the front leg. The heat-treated bullets only rang 3/10 rams. And, the heat-treated bullets made a noticeably louder clang upon bullet impact.

The range used for the testing just had all of its stands and animals replaced by two shooters that did an excellent job. All of the ram stands were level and the stands and ram feet were brushed to remove any dirt or sand. The front of the ram stands have stops so the ram's feet are always on the stands exactly the same. So, as you can see, it was a fair test. All testing was done off the bench and it was completely calm, not a breath of wind, gota control the variables.

The old 6.5mm, 155 gr Long-range bullets knocked the rams silly even before heat-treating. The heat-treated bullets knocked the rams down with even more authority and a louder clang.

Gliding metal (95% Cu & 5% Zn) requires a considerably higher temp to anneal than what is required to heat-treat, jacketed bullets.

There is a downside to heat-treating jacketed bullets. Accuracy degraded a bit after the bullets were heat-treated.

[Bob Mc Alice]

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