Ram ringers

More expensive to feed, but worth it.
jask
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Ram ringers

Post by jask »

I was watching a video of hits on Rams yesterday. It is well done and you can see the bullets in flight. I was surprised to see the large number of ringers and the size of the area where ringers occurred. I don't know if a headwind existed or other factors but that seemed to be a high number of ringers and a large area. I load for 2400fps with a 162 gr 7mm ballistic tip and I never got anywhere close to that number of ringers. What are people shooing 6.5's getting for muzzle velocity / bullet wt? Foot lbs of energy at 500 meters?

To me, nothing was more disappointing that a ringer. Are there a lot of 260's used now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wU-lGCBJ9c
Jerry G
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by Jerry G »

142 gr bullets at 2650 usualy knock them down.
at 500m:
velocity 2040fps
energy 1310 ft-lb
momentum 41.5 lb-f/s
jeff59
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by jeff59 »

Bob "The Guru" McAlice and I shot that video on 12-26-2012. If I remember correctly the temperature that day was about 9 degrees when we arrived and topped at 19 with a light breeze and bright sun. We filmed about 80 shots that day which I edited down to the 50 or so in the four videos. I think the low temperature made the flight of the bullet show up clearly in the video. There were a few shots with Bob's 30-06 with his hunting loads, all the rest were from our 7mm-08s with a variety of silhouette loads.

Every shot was aimed at a specific point on the animal, feet, head, center, left or right edge, etc. For the ram ringers we were shooting CPT loads (7mm-08, 130MK, 37.5 gr. Varget) and aiming at center of mass on the animal. Needless to say the bullets bounced off pretty consistently. After we were done filming I was shooting some 175 gr Hornady SPs and rang a ram three times in a row with good hits before knocking it down. We figured out what was happening when we picked up for the day. There was some slush left on the animals when we picked them up out of the snow and it was freezing the bases to the rail.

Jeff
jask
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by jask »

Thanks Jeff, the ice answers the question about the ringers that should have gone down.

My next question is why were you guys out there with the temp at 9 degrees? I guess I am a "fair weather" shooter but you wouldn't find me out there in the cold. BTW, really good videos and enjoyable to watch.
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by Snake »

Try this one on......at one of our spring matches with the temp about 55-65 degrees a fellow using a 6BR was slamming rams (8 in the 1st match 7 in the second match) . Not one ringer. Yet two others using 6.5 140 and 7-08 168 each lost one. It seems the north wind gusts were to blame and maybe jackets exploding. The 6.5 dinger was a neck hit and the 7 was a 'kidney' hit' The 6 hits were all over. So go figure that one :-?
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by kevinbear »

We assume that when we open a box of matchkings and they all look the same and appear to be without flaws that they in fact are "without flaws", I do not believe this to be the case!
Proof positive is big 30 caliber bullets occasionally failing to topple the ram targets{never seen it but heard folks swear up and down it happened}, or 7mm bullets that normally topple them failing to do so.
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by Snake »

I used to shoot a 308 and lost plenty of rams with 190 Matchkings. Not all the time but more than one would suppose or expect. By the same weird token I used a 250 Savage hunting rifle with120 gr GKs and it was actually 80% effective on rams. Aside from jacket flaws my personal theory is two fold: a) angle of approach and velocity--too fast and too steep and ram busting percentage goes down b) wind behind the ram....then you got problems. So a too light a bullet going too fast at a ram with a 10mph+ wind behind it and its probably not falling. The jacket flaw is a crap shoot...who would know or how would you 8-|
A fella that I knew was so annoyed by losing rams he thought that by annealing his bullets he could reduce the influence of jacket flaws. He used to cook 175 7mm in the oven at 275 degrees for 4 hours. The theory sounded good...the heat anneals the jacket and eliminates air pockets hence more homogeneity in the bullet. Too much like work for me....I just prefer off center / head or ass hits...actually I'll take any hit :D
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by jeff59 »

jask wrote:My next question is why were you guys out there with the temp at 9 degrees? I guess I am a "fair weather" shooter but you wouldn't find me out there in the cold. BTW, really good videos and enjoyable to watch.
Dedication to the sport...

Actually, we both had the day off work and going to the range beats out cleaning up after Christmas.

Jeff
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by Bob259 »

jeff59 wrote:
jask wrote:My next question is why were you guys out there with the temp at 9 degrees? I guess I am a "fair weather" shooter but you wouldn't find me out there in the cold. BTW, really good videos and enjoyable to watch.
Dedication to the sport...

Actually, we both had the day off work and going to the range beats out cleaning up after Christmas.

Jeff
And lets not forget a practice day to the Guru is sending 500 pills down range for fun, I think he likes to hear the bang :)
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by DennisC »

I had similar experience as above poster with .308 ringing rams, 180's bullet of choice...decided i didn't want a ram that bad. Went to 168s still kicked to hard (9# ADL), went to 155s for full distance and actually worked pretty well. Then I discovered the ULTIMATE silhouette chambering !!
Many years ago Charlie Wheaton got me using the 162amax, i was still ringing rams, especially at St Louis. The rifle shot tight groups with em at 2600+fps so that's what i loaded, when I matured enough to realize recoil was not my friend I found that there was a fairly accurate load at 2450-2500fps same bullet (though not as tight as the hotter one) ...ram count went up dramatically. Along about that time (decade or so ago) Mr Cauterucio sent me some samples of 156gr vlds he was experimenting with to see how they would perform on rams. Well that led to keeping records...with the 162 at 2600 lose rate was ~20% (shot alot at St Louis back then) after dropping velocity I logged 136 hits with 162s....rang 7. The Cauterucios? The man never made a bad bullet in my opinion...these were no different
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by jask »

I'm more than a little lost here. Why would a higher velocity cause more lateral dispersion of energy than a lower velocity? Velocity has dropped a lot by 500 meters so why don't we see huge splotches on chickens and pigs where the velocity is even higher?
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by jask »

BTW, I brought a Kowa scope to a match in Paris for a door prize. Charles won it and you could see tears of happiness from his eyes. He claimed he had never before won anything in his lifetime.
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by yankee »

JASK
Why are we not seeing large splashes on first three animals? Probably has to do with the weight of the animal and that the lighter animals are moved out of the way before the bullet explodes. A very good question it got me thinking. I guess a test would be to shoot at an unmoving or solid mounted animal at the shorter distance and see what happens. Or at the shorter distance the lead vaporizes due to pressure, heat and at the longer range it just mechanically comes apart.
Jask I know you. I was at that match when Charles got the Kowa. He had it with him at all matches. It found a good home. Will try to see him next week depending on weather. They are still having those two day matches on the third weekend of September. Chad
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by DennisC »

jask wrote:I'm more than a little lost here. Why would a higher velocity cause more lateral dispersion of energy than a lower velocity? Velocity has dropped a lot by 500 meters so why don't we see huge splotches on chickens and pigs where the velocity is even higher?
I honestly don't know the answer to that, maybe the 'guru' of 7s will offer some insight. About the only logical explanation I came up with back then was the BC on the 162s. As Charlie so astutely pointed out they strike about 6-8" higher than 168s at 500...doing the number charts the higher BC bullet wasn't slowing down as much and was hitting steel with enough speed to splatter on the tough ones. Ones that did go went like hit with a sledge hammer, used the 'hotter' load one year Ridgeway after mucho rain, muddy rams. The visible concussion and mud was impressive. I don't use that stout a load on short line...except maybe in bad switching winds I'll use it at turkeys....still can't hit em no more. Silence Chad...
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Re: Ram ringers

Post by Snake »

jask----part of the answer to the 'splotch' question is the angle of approach. At 500 meters the target is struck at a steeper angle than say a chicken.....
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