.22 LR Accuracy

steve b. · Post by **steve b.** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:17 pm

Well here is the part of the equation that I'm messing with at this time. It's my feeling that ammunition testing is the attempt to find the best relationship between a barreled action and ammunition.

What strikes me as interesting here is that in my new unlimited rail gun, i can now see astounding quirks to ammunition. Only with this rifle have I ever seen these things before. Of course, it's my first 40lb rifle with a 29" barrel / block setup, shooting off of steel rails in a massive 1-piece rest. The action is a Hall.

In the past, variables of stock design, return to battery, ect.. messes with the results of ammunition testing. I have been working on a way to test out this stuff without having other influences impact the results.

My goal is that the second rail gun that is in build now will allow me to test various barrels and ammunition. This is a 2013 setup on a barrel block. pretty simple to swap out barrels.

If this system works out, I want to build a third that will allow any barreled action to be clamped into the barrel block and isolate the barreled action system.

Ultimately, this will allow me to test any silhouette rifle (barreled action) and ammunition to find the best fit. From there, proper bedding will be apparent, as well as any errors with action flexing or binding in the stock during the firing process. It will also show ignition issues, and of course, barrel tune and indexing.

I have seen some smiths use a system that holds the action, others hold the barrel right near the receiver. Some use a V-block and flat, others glass bed the barrel into a round block. I'm not sure as to which approach, but at this time the bedded barrel in the block products some "interesting" groups on paper.

I'm looking to take all the time I have in BR and bring that bit of technology to silhouette, well, at least in my area.

So the data here is a interesting set of numbers for me to work with. I appreciate the time everyone has taken to post.

Thanks.

s.

papabear · Post by **papabear** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:14 pm

Don't talk too bad about those flyers, they're my only hope when i break the shot off the animal.
I know you guys have heard this before but a 0.5 inch group is worthless if you have an 8 inch wobble like me........

Don't "over" analyze the science of silhouette shooting leave something to the imagination.

just pull the trigger and enjoy the sensation of seeing the chickens fly, don't you just love it when you see those chicken flip over and over and over......... THEN FLIP BACK ON THE RAIL as if it was not hit.

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:52 pm

Most of us manage to hide our rifles' tremendous capabilities and our ammos' spectacular performance by our inability to hold still and shoot the dadburned things offhand the way the sport requires.......This is exactly why my PERFECT rifle and ammo combination continues to allow me to wallow in AAA purgatory.....It just can't seem to overcome the only thing that is standing it its way of true greatness....ME.....Oh well, at least she's a purty thang...

Kitty

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:22 pm

Anymore Kitty I'm like you... I can't see (trifocals), wobble like a Weeble, can't pull the trigger(carpal tunnel), over weight, out of shape.... but the ones we do hit sure makes it worth while

Oh and did I mention the Bling is fun too... It's just like my fly fishing, Orvis would be proud, till they see me cast

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:35 pm

Bob,
That fly fishing thing...you need feathers to tie some more flies with? Got a few exotic feathers laying around.

Innocent

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:57 pm

Innocent wrote:Bob,
That fly fishing thing...you need feathers to tie some more flies with? Got a few exotic feathers laying around.

Innocent

Mary I have a hard enough time casting, let alone trying to tie one of them darn things... especially with my trifocals and carpal tunnel

Thanks for the offer though. Living so close to some of the best trout fishing rivers in the US made me have to try it.

My new vice, or torture, for 08 is going to be HP Silhouette...

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:15 pm

Bob259 wrote:My new vice, or torture, for 08 is going to be HP Silhouette...

Same here, Bob, and it's that dadburn Kitty's fault!

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:13 am

BlauBear wrote:
Bob259 wrote:My new vice, or torture, for 08 is going to be HP Silhouette...
Same here, Bob, and it's that dadburn Kitty's fault!

BlauBear, Kitty seems to do this to all of us... first it was the Bling race and now HP. It scares me to think of just what what he might get us into next

NewAZShooter · Post by **NewAZShooter** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:57 am

Papabear wrote:
"just pull the trigger and enjoy the sensation of seeing the chickens fly, don't you just love it when you see those chicken flip over and over and over......... THEN FLIP BACK ON THE RAIL as if it was not hit."

D'oh! I've never seen that trick, but I know I'd have a hard time finishing my string if it did, because I'd be laughing so hard! Well put, sir. And I sure do love watching those babies take flight, flipping and spinning end over end as they co right over the berm.

jniehouse wrote:
"This is exactly why my PERFECT rifle and ammo combination continues to allow me to wallow in AAA purgatory....."

AAA Purgatory? Oh to be in such a sad state. I just barely made it into AA. On behalf of myself and all the other "lesser" shooters out there, I'd like to borrow a line from the Monty Python crew and say in response, "I fart in your general direction."

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:39 pm

The Important Part
Kitty has taught me that all we can do with great equipment and supplies is control some of the variables. We are the remaining variable, and that's where the actual work begins.

The Other Stuff
Last spring I spent a lot of time at the range experimenting with ammunition (such a sacrifice...) and was surprised by some of the things I found.

High velocity ammunition was flatter and more stable out to turkeys, but then drops like a rock at rams, up to 3MOA more than standard velocity. Trans-Sonic buffeting was not observed to affect group size, just the dramatic drop. 1200FPS ammunition was tested because it has better availability, and I found the Federal Automatch is a really good value, and 719 was excellent, but I rejected high velocity ammunition because it was unpleasant to use and annoyed other shooters without any advantage.

Several types of ammunition were dropped because they were dirty or inconsistent in behavior or appearance. Of all the ammunition tested, Federal 711B was best in a factory stock Anschutz 1712 and a Remington 504 while anything with a Lilja barrel or other tight bore or chamber had a real preference for all things Eley.

For practice and local matches I use Federal 711B or Eley Practice/Standard interchangeably, depending on availability and cost. Two weeks before a road trip or important match I switch over to the Club (downgraded EPS) that Cathy was selling last summer. Any rifle that doesn't love that stuff just wants to be a tomato stake anyway...

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:16 pm

BlauBear wrote:The Important Part
Kitty has taught me that all we can do with great equipment and supplies is control some of the variables. We are the remaining variable, and that's where the actual work begins........

You learned well young Sky Walker.......

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:26 pm

Kitty has taught me that all we can do with great equipment and supplies is control some of the variables

That, and the all important lesson of waiting until your buddy's back is turned BEFORE you give his scope knobs a full turn of elevation.......

Kitty

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:57 pm

jneihouse wrote:
Kitty has taught me that all we can do with great equipment and supplies is control some of the variables
That, and the all important lesson of waiting until your buddy's back is turned BEFORE you give his scope knobs a full turn of elevation.......

Kitty

Hmmmm... note to self leave scope caps on when around Kitty

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:52 pm

Bob259 wrote:Hmmmm... note to self leave scope caps on when around Kitty

Did I mention that Kitty has a sense of humor that may be an acquired taste? That and he intensely dislikes being ignored...

ajj · Post by **ajj** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:08 am

Random stuff:
10 shot groups will average about 1.3" from a rifle that averages 1" for 5 shot groups. That's not from experimenting, it's mathmatics. The key word is "average."
The ram is about 2 MOA in elevation. Are others finding that most real "flyers" are out on elevation, more often low than high?
The chance of hitting a 1 MOA diameter circle with a single shot, from the bench, with a rifle that averages 1 MOA is .675, less than seven out of ten (because "average" means some groups are larger and because the centers of two groups will be in different places.)
Anything you THINK will make you shoot better WILL make you shoot better.
I once spotted for a shooter who hit a chicken dead center and drove it hard to the berm where it hit some fresh chicken wire we'd put down for erosion control and bounced back up onto the pad. Not just the rail, the pad. Landed on the foot. I counted it as a hit...one that just saved the target setter a little trouble.
Steve, don't be shy. Tell us what the rail gun is saying.

Edited after review of source material.