What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

22 Long Rifle ammo is finicky. Tell us all about it here.
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What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by 22's forever »

Ok..more than 2 questions...

What do you pratice with ?? What ammo....same as match or something else ?

How do you compare CCI SV with Wolf MT ??

Anyone use CCI SV ? Results ?
Thanx again
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Trent »

This is really just a question of what you can afford and what you are willing to spend. I have three ammo choices that I use personally. RWS Target Rifle ($7/50), Wolf MT ($5/50) and Cc
CCI Standard Velocity ($2.50/50). I use the different ammo depending on weather conditions, match goals or personal goals. If the weather is nasty or if the match is somewhat of a "fun" match then I may tend towards the CCI stuff. Big matches or the demand to score higher will push me towards the RWS. Right now our weather is shaping up, and I am trying to move into AAA so this past Sunday I switched back to the RWS without question.

Now, we shoot matches every Sunday here... so technically I don't "practice".

Regardless, only you can set you "practice" ammo budget. If CCI fits your budget and shoots well in your gun then it is a great ammo.
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Innocent »

22's forever, interesting question and I refer you to an article Lone Ringer wrote on practice vs training on this forum.
I shoot a mixture of lower grade Eley and WInchester T22 and some CMP stuff (agian older CMP was T22 and newer CMP appears to be Aguila), at local or 'fun' matches, mostly to train with different firearms than the one I usually carry to matches.
My favorite rifle preferes either higher grade Eley or Laupua (one of the few ammos it does not like is RWS), so I will shoot that ammo at a match where the level of competition demands it. Typically I will get 2 to 3 fliers in a box of lower grade ammo, so if I am concerned about those few points I will shoot the higher end ammo.

My experience with Wolf ( and the SK that I have shot) is the drop between Turkeys and Rams is much greater at this distance, so I do not normally use it. Grouping is similar but remembering to bring the scope up another 2MOA on average over other ammo is something I prefer not to do.
With CCI I have seen the average number of fliers per box increase threefold (6 to 9 shots/50), so I do not use it.

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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Dee »

At chickens and pigs the CCI SV works just fine and it does ok at the longer distances as well but it does have more inconsistency and you can hear it in the report or lack of one when it happens. The good rounds shoot very well for the money but the fliers make it to costly to use in a big match. I will use it to shoot local matches if I don't feel like changing ammo to SK. Since I shoot at my house I prefer the cheap stuff for that as I use more of it and can shoot 2 for 1 versus using my SK. CCI will shoot under and inch at 100m on a good day in my 1712 but it does seem to have more wind drift than some higher end ammo.


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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Trent »

Innocent wrote:*SNIP*

My experience with Wolf ( and the SK that I have shot) is the drop between Turkeys and Rams is much greater at this distance, so I do not normally use it. Grouping is similar but remembering to bring the scope up another 2MOA on average over other ammo is something I prefer not to do.
*SNIP*

Mary
Mary, I know you've mentioned that in the past, the 2 MOA difference. I guess I've never thought about it too much, but I just got to wondering about it. Is there a difference in velocity between your match ammo and the Wolf/SK stuff? If there is a 2 MOA difference then I would ASSume that there is. For me, my match ammo (RWS Target Rifle) and Wolf/SK are nearly identical ballistic wise.

The reason I ask is because it made me think... 2 MOA means that the SK/Wolf is having more of an arc in it's flight path. This to me equates to a smaller margin for error at Rams. By that, I mean that there is less room for me to be able to make a mistake because I would have more of a chance of dropping behind the Ram, or under it due to the greater arc of the slower ammo.

Does that make sense?
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by 22's forever »

Thanx for the replies. I have about 3000 rds of Wolf...just picked up 2 cases of CCI SV. I'll use the CCI to practice a lot with and shoot the Wolf on special occassions when I feel the need. It shoots well in my other rifles and pistols.
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Innocent »

Trent,
in answer to your questions:
1) I did not have a chronograph at either end of the test shots on the days tested. Ammo that I shot includes Wolf Match Extra and Wolf Match, SK pistol, Eley Sport, Winchester T22, Eley Tenex and Laupua Midas. Rifles included Browning 52 (remake), 2 different Winchester 52 (remake), Annie 54 action in original wood stock.
2) While in Ridgway last year Adam Braverman (Lapua)had a "group testing/measuring" device set up and was monitoring groups fired from any rifles and ammo combnations. In the initial set up he asked that shooters set at their normal Ram distance and then take the scope up 2MOA so it would fire in the actual machine, not the aiming point set up. My first ten shots with Eley were 2 minutes high as expected but landed in the proper area for measurement. The first shot with SK provided by Adam actually impacted the rim of the device, 2 inches low.
I follow your reasoning for the arc of flight path, but the reasoning for smaller error of margin I am confused? I am of the opinion (take it for what you paid for it) that Wolf and SK will have less inertia at the longer distance and therefore less knockdown power on edge hits of the rams.
Aside from the fact that bringing the scope up that extra 2 MOA (for my scope) brings to at least a full revolution on the markings and therefore introduces a much higher chance for error of being off a full revolution in settings during a match.

So let the physics discussion begin!

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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Trent »

In my method of thinking, as the angle of impact increases then the actual available impact area decreases. For example, imagine that you have a 4"x4" plate that you are shooting at (16 square inches). Now imagine that your bullet's impact angle is an exaggerated 45*. That would, in theory, decrease the surface area by about half. It would be the same as taking that same 4"x4" plate and tilting it towards the shooter by 45*. It would now appear to be a 4"x2" plate.

A flatter shooting round has a higher "available" surface area than a round that has a steep arc.

Granted, we are talking about a small difference. I'd have to sit down and sketch this out in order to get the numbers.
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Jerry G »

Trent, You have taken it to an extreme. The angle difference is 2 minutes of angle. Run that through your calculator and see how much smaller that makes your target. Remember, there are 60 minutes to 1 degree.
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Innocent »

Trent,
Cya in Phoenix!
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Trent »

Jerry G wrote:Trent, You have taken it to an extreme. The angle difference is 2 minutes of angle. Run that through your calculator and see how much smaller that makes your target. Remember, there are 60 minutes to 1 degree.
Every little bit helps!! :mrgreen:

This was more of a discussion of physics than it was a discussion on practicality. I'm not thinking about changing my ammo out.
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

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Innocent wrote:Trent,
Cya in Phoenix!
Mary

Is that "c-ya" in Phoenix... or "cover-your-ass" in Phoenix? :mrgreen:

I watch my ass around all these old silo shooters. Some of them have a fruity look in their eyes sometimes. :))
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

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Trent...how 'bout both? ANd thanks for calling me old. McAlice I think you have me beat by a few years what are we going to do with this shooter?

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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

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Innocent wrote:Trent...how 'bout both? ANd thanks for calling me old. McAlice I think you have me beat by a few years what are we going to do with this shooter?

Innocent

NEVER! I know better than that! :shock:

McAlice and Bonner on the other hand... old. Old and fruity. haha. =))

I'm nipping right at their heels though. Out of no where I seem to have grown myself a nice salt-n-pepper hairdo. :-\
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Re: What do you practice with? 2nd question as well

Post by Innocent »

Trent I could respond to the salt and pepper but not on this side of the berm, besides I am onlyjust barely middle age. Anyway, I'm sure there will be more than one discussion about the angle of ammo and the infamous ram. As for McAlice n Bonner being fruity...don't trash my CO buds, they take care of me when I show up at the states emptyhanded. Now JB is another story. How's the TAT coming Beckley?

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