Scopes. Why not?

[BrentD]

On another thread, Glenn mentioned that they occasionally allow scopes (I presume not for NRA classifications) in their lever gun matche. That leads me to wonder why scopes are not allowed in lever gun. Currently, fiber-optic front sights and abominable receiver sights are allowed (including with a single element lens), but no scopes. Why not?

It seems to me that there are two options if scopes were to be allowed

1. permit them just like any other sight? BPCR-scope class has shown that scopes don't lead to runaway scores. Indeed, scope class winning scores are often lower than the iron sight class by a point or two. So scoring advantage is not there.

2. Better yet would be a scope class (or "any sight" in the vernacular of Schuetzen shooting). The scope class in BPCR has grown to the point that is is now larger than the original iron sight class. It lets aging shooters shoot longer. It let's people with just plain bad eyesight shoot at all, and it is fun in its own right to watch the bullet strikes and targets go down the scope. Many shooters, maybe most, shoot both irons and scope class.

I should mention that bpcr scopes are limited to 1" objectives and nonclick, external mounts. There are a number of these available (Zimmerman, MVA, Leatherwood) now, in addition to original scopes by Lyman, Fecker, Unertl and others. Some of them would mount quite easily on many lever guns and be very appropriate on them.

I have no doubt whatsoever that allowing scopes or creating a new scope class would grow the sport. It would allow shooters than can't shoot to start. It would keep shooters who are about to drop out still active for a few more years, and it would (as a new class) allow all shooters the opportunity to double their shooting where scope and iron sight classifications are shot separately.

Scope is clearly a huge success in BPCR - why not CLA?

[Merlin]

In 6 months this will be the standard setup....?

[BrentD]

In 6 months this will be the standard setup....?

How so?

25 views and not one constructive comment?

[Merlin]

Just an attempt at humor....

With that being said there is already a class for scoped rifles. They do use a smaller target but I think it is basically the same thing you are suggesting here....? Last match we had just one shooter score a 40x40 using the smaller targets so using the half scale would possibly let more people join the ranks of the perfect..

[BrentD]

Just an attempt at humor....

With that being said there is already a class for scoped rifles. They do use a smaller target but I think it is basically the same thing you are suggesting here....? Last match we had just one shooter score a 40x40 using the smaller targets so using the half scale would possibly let more people join the ranks of the perfect..

BPCR shows that scopes do not make a difference in scores. Or at least not an appreciable difference. Target sizes are identical and iron sights are MUCH more restrictive in BPCR than they are in CLA.

[dhatch]

I say, leave a great sport alone. Leave it as is. My humble opinion. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
To me it is Great.

[Ken Green]

I say, leave a great sport alone. Leave it as is. My humble opinion. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
To me it is Great.

I am with Danny on this one. CLA ain't broke. It don't need to be fixed. It is fine just the way it is.

[OldRanger]

You keep comparing lever guns to black powder, they are very different. I don't think any current silhouette shooter would shoot much less than a 40 with a scope on a lever 30-30. The reason it is so different is the lock/dwell time. A 500 grain bullet going 1300 fps is much different than a 150 grain bullet going 2200 fps. As a matter of fact maybe I'll slap a scope on my 30-30 and see what I can do on lever action targets. Hmm, I'll let you know how it turns out.

I say leave it alone, its growing as it is.

Oh, on a side note can we petition to drop the word cowboy and just make it 'Smallbore Lever Action SIlhouette' etc?

[dhatch]

Yep. I'm all for dropping the "Cowboy" part. I don't use it now. I say Lever Action Silhouette.

[hermit5]

I would sign that petition to drop the Cowboy from silhouette.
It confuses folks with the Cowboy action game.
I use the Lever action Silhouette in reference to our sport,
with notation of smallbore,pistol Cartridge,and Big gun.

[Ken Green]

I would be willing to sign a petition to drop the word "cowboy" from lever action silhouette.

[Westy]

If your so mad keen on shooting with a scope them shoot RMS or centerfire Silhouette??
Just a thought!!!
pretty sure CLAS doesn't need scopes.
Maybe a class using levers with scopes but I think merlin has it right with the picture he posted IMHO!!

Tell me this is a setup Ken your joking right???

[BrentD]

Dropping the "Cowboy" would be nice. Too many people associate it with that dress-up game.

A separate class for scope rifles would be just fine. It wouldn't hurt a thing either. I know folks are afraid of anything new, but if you want to attract new people and keep old people, a little change and newness might go a LONG ways. Slow death through stagnation is inevitable otherwise.

Oldranger, your post makes no sense at all. I'll be interested to see how your scores "improve" with the scope. I would guess they don't change if you shoot several rounds with it.

Who shoots 2200 fps in CLA? I sure don't. I doubt my .38-55 makes it past 1400 fps. Maybe a lot less. My .22 shoots the same subsonic that my .22bpcr uses, and my pistol cartridge rifle is trundling along at around the speed of sound I imagine.

[atomicbrh]

I think Brent has an excellent idea except for one thing. The scopes allowed should be any modern scope with any reticle but limit them to a magnification of 9 or maybe even 4. This would be a class for what would be the typical tube-fed gray squirrel rifle in my home state; lever actions, pumps or semi-automatics. Stock factory barrels, no bedding of any kind, the factory stock that came with the barreled action, no aftermarket stocks, no aftermarket triggers, no weight added to the rifle, hunting vest only. Measure a lot of stock out of the box triggers for each rifle that would fit the rules and determine the minimum trigger weight specification. I would think it would be 4 pounds or more. Weigh the same sample of factory rifles and specify a minimum weight rule for the rifle. Same rules as lever action for the spotting device. Shoot the Smallbore lever action size targets.

Create this as a totally separate class that has nothing to do with the present NRA cowboy lever action silhouette.
If there are a lot of perfect scores shot, put the chickens on the ram line for tie breaker shootoffs.

[Jason]

I shoot a Marlin 57M in 22 Magnum in pistol cartridge matches. I typically shooting scores somewhere between 33 and 37 with it, with an occasional 38 and a rare 39. I have never shot a 40 with it. While ammo testing with a scope mounted on it, I decided to shoot two practice matches. I shot 10 shots at a time, and waited between them like I would in a match. The result is two 40/40 scores. Evidently I just need better vision to get that real 40/40 in a match. I will caveat this that I don't remember what power scope I had on it. I think it was about 12 power or so, but possibly could have been a 9 power.