re annealing.

For anybody contemplating the "gas torch in a darkened room" method, can I urge you all to read this article at http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Look past the fact that the article is written by a purveyor of a gas fired machine (I used to own one, but moved on to the induction heating type) and digest the warnings and hazards that are introduced with the somewhat haphazard gas torch method.

Look after your brass, especially stuff that is scarce or has to be formed from a "parent" case.

49er

Update.

Have annealed and formed 350 pieces of brass. Loaded 40 with a 85 gr bullet and a light charge of HS6, just to fire form the brass. Also to check to see if I did it correctly. No loss of cases since annealing, think that this one step is the key to avoid loosing brass. You can form the cases without it, but you will have to accept loosing brass at a rate I was not willing to accept. Also discovered that I really like the Hornady bullet seating die. Even with lead bullets no need to bell the case. Just bevel like you would any other rifle case.

The test rounds were my first chance to fire the rifle. Must say I like it a lot. Very low report and recoil. Accuracy was not that great, but this was only to fire form the brass, so 3in at 50 yds is OK. Did discover that the mag tube is loose and that someone had taken it apart before. Will need to get it fixed before working up serious loads. Also the trigger is about 6lbs. May just take it up to Alaska and have Wild West do an action job. They will set the trigger to whatever I want and tighten everything down.

JW

No1 49
Purchased the Sage Outfitters machine. Really simple, and the two tricks to using it is the height of the second fence to ensuring the brass will turn. Then just figuring the angle of the torch or torches to get the desired results. I found you could only use one torch on the 25-20 due to the brass being short. This meant that I needed more time in the flame and had to take a angle that the brass would get a full rotation and then adjust the flame to where it would not overcook the brass. I was impressed at how even it looks. $300 bucks seems like a lot for an aluminum table with a motor and two flat metal strips, but it works and that is all I really care about. Everything else I looked at was twice the cost, or not available.

JW

Update.
Loaded and fired 500 newly formed 25-20s with 0 losses. I will now send my rifle off to be repaired and tuned while i finish working on the cases. To date they were annealed formed in a Redding form and trim die, chaffered and final sized in a Hornady standard full length size die. Total case losses to make 500 was 21. Most of that was learning how much lube was needed to form the brass without dimpling the shoulder so bad that they had to be discarded. When I annealed all the brass that practically went away, but still happened. All in all loss rate was not that high.

While the rifle is away I will size the brass, fully clean it again, re-anneal and trim to a uniform length. The biggest problem is that the Starline Brass is still short of the trim to length. I want to keep the length long enough to still use the recommended COL and be able to put a slight crimp. Sadly this looks like about a third of the brass will get sent to the practice bin, for being too short.

Hope the smith does not take too long. Weather will go bad in Sept. and make testing harder.

JW

When using anyone's cast lead bullet with Starline brass formed from 32-20, I recommend using the Lee factory crimp die with a light bump. Seat the bullet to SAAMI OAL and forget using the bullet's cannelure to set the seating depth. The brass isn't long enough. The crimp goal is to recover the neck expansion to where the cartridge chambers correctly.

As for coated lead bullets like those offered by Missouri, I recommend a light coating of diluted Alox mixed 1:4 with Naptha. Why? Just slug your bore with one and you'll see that most of the coating smears off leaving bare lead. 'Nuff said.

Joe:
I gave up on the coated bullets and went back to the load I used two years ago - 4198 pushing a Speer 75gr. It worked fine in 2015, but I thought I should look into other options. Now I can say I have looked, and my original load works best- for me.

Michael
Rockport

Snaketail, I'm curious. What kind of groups are you getting with 4198 in your 25-20? I could never get it to shoot accurately in my rifle. Groups were ok, but nothing like I have achieved with H322.

Also, I've seen somewhere on this forum that guys use a .270 forming die as the first step in making 25-20 brass from 32-20. This die has to be cut off to work. What length die should you end up with to perform this operation?

Thanks.

JohnHenry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:45 pm Snaketail, I'm curious. What kind of groups are you getting with 4198 in your 25-20? I could never get it to shoot accurately in my rifle. Groups were ok, but nothing like I have achieved with H322.

Jim:
I'm getting groups on the 3" area with IMR4198. I tried H322 and could see the potential, but never followed through with it. My rifle is a Ducks Unlimited with 22" barrel.

I got very lucky at an estate sale and bought enough brass that I don't have to form it. (at least not yet!)

See you in Oklahoma next month.

Michael

Michael, your experience with 4198 in the 25-20 mirrors my own. I quite using it because of the 3" groups--not good enough for me. With the H322, I am getting consistent one inch groups or less. That is accuracy in a lever gun.

I see more testing in my future.
Michael

Just in case anyone is looking for them Midsouth Reloading has Speer 75gr JFPs.

JW

Thanks! All over it

And...they are gone!
M

Finally got back my 25-20 from WWG in Anchorage. They did a beautiful job on the trigger and repairing the mag tube. Sadly it arrives just in time for me to deploy to San Juan PR for a few weeks. This means I will miss the November match at Machias. Hope to be back in time to shoot the January match. With no practice it will likely be a bad day score wise, but if I were that worried about embarrassing scores I would never shoot.

When returning I have everything needed for load development, including 10 days vacation.

Have fun (?) and be safe in PR. See you when you get back. Let's try to schedule some day to meet out at Machias range and practice for the cowboy matches after you get back. I have a Labradar chronograph on the way that we can play with, too.