Reloading

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Re: Reloading

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ppkny wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 am Sporty: Have you tried Magtech: 357 MAG 158GR LFN Muzzle Velocity 1085. I used these a long time ago before I got into reloading.
ppkny
Yes and Magtech .38 Special 158 grain L-Flat at 984 fps. It did not group well enough at 100 meters.
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Reloading

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Another Dang 9 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:24 am AR 500 Steel would laugh at anything other than armor piercing ammo. Even AR 350 will take it. Your club is most likely using plain hot rolled steel. I would protest the metal used as not conforming to NRA rules. I've had this issue with clubs before and after much discussion it always turns out they bought cheap targets to save money. If you are shooting approved matches the targets MUST conform to the rules.
They are AR500 steel. I purchased them and I damaged them with craters shooting all sorts of factory .357 Magnum. Never shot at them with a FMJ bullet, however. They were LFN, SJSP & JSP.
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Re: Reloading

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ppkny wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:00 am Let's get serious about reloading...nobody can afford to spend 10 minuets loading one cartridge with that Lee reloader. You're going to need 40+ cartridges for a match. You will NEED to invest a certain amount of money say about $150 to get started. So either do it or continue to spend $$$ trying to find adequate factory loads which you'll find out there aren't any.
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You're correct except for the Geco .38 Special 158 grain JHP. The 100 meter groups are satisfactory but it tends to squib, for some reason.

I'm likely getting the LEE PRECISION Breech Lock Challenger Press and the stuff below. I'm not comfortable using a progressive with me having zero experience. The time saved isn't worth it for me.

I am reading the Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook.

LEE PRECISION Breech Lock Challenger Press
Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set .38 Special
Lee Prescion 90600 Die Bushings, 2 Packs of 2
LEE PRECISION Lee Preciesion 90997, Small & Large Safety Prime Primer Feeder
Lee Precision Reloading Lee Value Trim Die Tool, Silver, Small
LEE PRECISION 90085 38 SPEC Quick Trim DIE Silver
Lee Precision Primer Pocket Cleaner
National Metallic Digital Powder Scale 1600 Grain Capacity
Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler with Large Powder Capacity and Convenient Height for Reloading
RCBS Black Electronic 9090 Powder Scale Pan With Integrated Funnel
Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ 110V Vibratory Case Tumbler for Cleaning and Polishing for Reloading
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
Retired match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
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Re: Reloading

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Charlie if you are damaging AR 500 Steel then its not AR 500 Steel.
Not all AR Steel (350-500) is the same but AR 500 is typically "through treated". Some is only "surface treated" usually the AR 350-450 materials.
The A-36 material Al spoke of is typically only surface treated and is generally fine for all 1/2 scale targets and I would consider it the minimal for general range use.
The price of the steel jumps dramatically depending on what you buy. Making targets is very expensive unless you are doing it on a large scale production and most people don't understand the difference between all the various types of metal out there or even between similar metals.

Al. There use to be a rule about targets but since they changed the thickness of the targets I haven't seen any reference to target material. It was listed in the older rule books as well as the range requirement handbook the NRA had but no longer prints. Ive asked several people at NRA HQ about it but none of the new people even know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Reloading

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Another Dang 9 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:27 pm Charlie if you are damaging AR 500 Steel then its not AR 500 Steel.
I checked the invoice from two years ago and it stipulates AR500 for the chickens I damaged. They have the typical AR500 ping sound compared to the A36 we replaced. Maybe the AR500 chickens we have were softened with welding the base pads. If that's the case then what else can be done? We need to stand the targets up.

If you haven't damaged AR500 Steel then you're not trying hard enough. I'm on the club's committee that had established rules for safely shooting steel in front of our berms after researching shooting steel gongs and trees. In the testing process I placed a 12" AR500 gong from AR500 Target solutions at 50 yards and we managed to dimple that steel. It was an extreme test at close range for .223 55 grain ammo but each hit left a dimple. I won't shoot at that side of the gong any longer for safety against ricochets.
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Re: Reloading

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Sporty wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:04 pm
I am reading the Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook.

LEE PRECISION Breech Lock Challenger Press
Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set .38 Special
Lee Prescion 90600 Die Bushings, 2 Packs of 2
LEE PRECISION Lee Preciesion 90997, Small & Large Safety Prime Primer Feeder
Lee Precision Reloading Lee Value Trim Die Tool, Silver, Small
LEE PRECISION 90085 38 SPEC Quick Trim DIE Silver
Lee Precision Primer Pocket Cleaner
National Metallic Digital Powder Scale 1600 Grain Capacity
Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler with Large Powder Capacity and Convenient Height for Reloading
RCBS Black Electronic 9090 Powder Scale Pan With Integrated Funnel
Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ 110V Vibratory Case Tumbler for Cleaning and Polishing for Reloading
That's a good kit similar to what I started with. I don't know about the digital scale--I went with an RCBS beam scale.
You can probably skip the trim die stuff. I bought one of those before learning that pistol brass shrinks and really never needs trimming. Get yourself a Lyman case gauge to quickly check each case. Also, if you're trying to keep costs down for starters, my chubby fingers work just as well for dropping a primer into the priming arm as the safety prime gizmo. You will want to get a primer flip tray, though. The RCBS one works great. Oh, one more thing. Since you're going with the Lee die set, you'll have their excellent powder through expander die. You're going to want a standard funnel for that, not the pan/funnel thingy.
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Re: Reloading

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Charlie at that range you run the risk of splash back. Hope you had some kind of shield of some kind. Yes you can damage most anything at that range including yourself. There is a reason why HP targets are set at 200 yards to start. Ive shot my .22-250 with 55 gr. going close to 3700fps at the HP chicken at 200 yards without a Mark. Move that to 50 yards and it will pucker it for sure.
As far as welding the feet you can take the temper out of the metal from welding but that can be minimised if you have it MIG welded not stick welded. Then quickly cool them in an oil bath. That would need to be done at a professional shop with a good MIG machine. A home shop type MIG can't get the penetration needed for a solid weld on 1/2 AR Steel. Also you should preheat the metal that helps get a good weld.
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Re: Reloading

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Another Dang 9 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:19 pm Charlie at that range you run the risk of splash back. Hope you had some kind of shield of some kind. Yes you can damage most anything at that range including yourself. There is a reason why HP targets are set at 200 yards to start. Ive shot my .22-250 with 55 gr. going close to 3700fps at the HP chicken at 200 yards without a Mark. Move that to 50 yards and it will pucker it for sure.
It was just a test. The rule is 100 yard minimum with a HP rifle. The gong was hanging loosely at a 20° angle. That's an advantage over our silhouette targets that can ricochet back at us if the bullet does a double ricochet off the leg and base weld joint area.
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Re: Reloading

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Your a braver man than I Charlie.
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Re: Reloading

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DJA wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:48 pm That's a good kit similar to what I started with. I don't know about the digital scale--I went with an RCBS beam scale.
You can probably skip the trim die stuff. I bought one of those before learning that pistol brass shrinks and really never needs trimming. Get yourself a Lyman case gauge to quickly check each case. Also, if you're trying to keep costs down for starters, my chubby fingers work just as well for dropping a primer into the priming arm as the safety prime gizmo. You will want to get a primer flip tray, though. The RCBS one works great. Oh, one more thing. Since you're going with the Lee die set, you'll have their excellent powder through expander die. You're going to want a standard funnel for that, not the pan/funnel thingy.
Yeah, I like that idea of a manual primer feed too. Especially after reading the CAUTION in the Lyman Handbook about using a primer feeder until one has more experience.

Thanks for the tips.
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Reloading

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Charlie, I've used the Lee primer tool for years. Super cheap but well made. I usually prime my brass when I'm watching TV. 1000 rounds can take a lot of time. It says don't use match primers in it but I've loaded thousands with out an issue.
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Re: Reloading

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Wouldn't the Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set for the .38 Special eliminate the need for a case gauge?
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Re: Reloading

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Charlie. Save your money. You don't need a case gauge since you are loading 38s in a .357 chamber. I've been loading my .357 mag brass for more than a decade without a single split case or having to trim them. 38s would probably last twice that. You will lose more brass from the crimp splitting the case than anything else.
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Re: Reloading

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Edit: Delete
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Reloading

Post by tnchicknsnipr »

I have noticed that when targets are hit with jacketted bullets you can see nothing but powder when hit and no damage. When shot with plated or cast a dipple is left and a small flat disk can sometimes be found. Tim Lee once said it is about energy transfer. Plated or cast bullets hit like a spit ball and stick were as jackett will powder. I have seen it on our targets which are ar500 steel. The big problem in hardness is laser cut versus plasma cut. Laser takes out less temperament of the steel.
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