NO MORE FIBER OPTIC FRONT SIGHTS FOR COWBOY

[glen ring]

One last thought from me on this sight topic. Why not everyone vote for a color on the targets other than black or white? The contrast of the gray targets against the color of the berm at Raton really makes you look for your animal. If they were a color other than black or white, wouldn't that make them more visible?

[Innocent]

Glen,
I'm not sure what part of most of the comments on this sight you have missed. Greg Conner almost NEVER goes with what the shooters 'vote' for. Color of animals is not up for option in his opinion, as is no color changes are allowed to help seperate banks of animals as have been tried at several nationals in the different disciplines.
Mary

[glen ring]

I certainly apologize for possibly missing some points, but it was probably because my "Objectivity Override Button" was not engaged.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and a voice. This is America and I certainly enjoy this forum and continue to learn on a weekly basis. but I'm "experienced " enough to not make up my mind about something or someone based on a few comments that I haven't seen substantiated.

Have you ever approached Mr. Connor with the idea of changing the colors of the targets?

If there is a reason for the targets being a certain color then I'll just follow the rules and shoot the targets. I can see why shooters shooting different colored targets in a match would be considered an un-level playing field, but if the entire body voted for everyone's targets to be pink, why would that matter?

I've had good experiences with Mr. Connor and admire the work he does and how patient he is , considering some of his challenges. One of my friends had been taught how to shoot by Mr. Connor a lifetime ago, and is still in admiration of him.

I ask a lot of questions and even at this stage in my "decomposition" I can learn.

One of the early gifts of my youth is learning that not everyone that wears a lab coat is a scientist and that calling a sheep's tail a leg doesn't make it so.

If a statement is made about something or someone, I've learned to ask questions and find the "base of knowledge" that , for me anyway, separates fact from rumor.

I really like how the NRA runs things, I hope there aren't any changes in CLA and I think ( based on mine and my wife's experience with him) Mr. Connor is a gentleman and does a fine job.

New shooters reading these forums should form their own opinions about individuals and how to make the sport better. I've worked for several bosses that were transferred to my area and I was warned by their former workers about how bad they were. These "bad" bosses were some of the best folks I've ever worked for and some are life long friends.

I've submitted proposals that were turned down and a few months latter the same proposal would be submitted by another co-worker of mine and it would be accepted. Some folks ( I'm one of them) don't seem to have the gift of getting changes done, some do. If I don't get a proposal accepted I know that it was probably a flaw in my delivery.

[ppkny]

Glen writes: I've submitted proposals that were turned down and a few months latter the same proposal would be submitted by another co-worker of mine and it would be accepted. Some folks ( I'm one of them) don't seem to have the gift of getting changes done, some do.

Same here and I don't think it's our delivery. Case in point. Some people have already gotten emails back from the NRA as stated in this thread. My emails seem to go ignored. They, the NRA will do what they danm please and not listen to anyone maybe only people the think will agree with them.
Did they listen when we all told them it was a bad idea to stop giving out trophys.
ppkny

[Cimarron Red]

Hi, Glen,

It is a good thing that you have never felt the barbs of Greg Connor's condescension nor suffered the stings of his rebuke. But rest assured that there are those among who have.

[JohnHenry]

Glen, I think you have a good idea about changing the silhouette target color to something besides white or black. I have thought about this myself. What about florescent orange?

The reason shooters have gone to the glow front sight is to distinguish it from the target. The whole object is to see the target against a brown(dirt) or green background.

Now, I've had some limited conversations with Greg Connors at Whittington during the Cowboy Nationals. He has always seemed very logical in his thinking. So lets not poo poo Glen's suggestion about color change. I think it should be explored. I'm going to try various colors at my range and see how they look.

[glen ring]

JOHNHENRY

I have a dirt berm at my house with a dark background that the steel paneled traps make. I'll try the orange in the morning and give you a post. I also have yellow and will try that also. If it's just the cost of the paint I would be more than willing to shell out another dollar or two in entry fees at the nationals. If all of us "more experienced" shooters can see our sights better than maybe this can be a solution/answer to the fiber optic question/rule.. If most of us can try a different color at our ranges and give a report from different parts of the country, then maybe our collective idea can help more shooters see their sights. Whether it's a good idea or bad idea these trials will get us to the range shooting our rifles in the winter!

[Innocent]

Glen, you don't listen well do you? Yes Mr Connor has been approached by many on changing animal colors, background colors ( on lines where there were metal backstops) and target stand colors, as recently as this year by many different people, up to and including offering to buy the supplies themselves, (because he claimed "it's not in the budget") and have been met with complete refusal.
THe trophy vs. "points" arguement has gone almost nowhere.
Yes I am aware that a lot of people read this forum, I also am aware that I have seen the silhouette sport grow and fall at the nationals because of the overall change of the attitude of the NRA in general. I have attended a few nationals in several of the silhouette disciplines, in a few different states hosted by a few different clubs, spent a bit of time with the host match directors, and listened to their issues and problems with the 'support' from the NRA, and the complaints and issues always fall back to poor decisions by Greg C.
What Greg may have done in teaching someone to shoot years ago is great, let him go back to that,I have met many that knew him in his 'active' shooting days, no comment. (I think my mother said something to me about being polite, once.)

WHile I have been blessed with good eyesight most of my life, I have taught (both professionally and as a volunteer) shooting, in rifle and pistol for a few years (certified instructor for 29 years) and during that time I have had the opportunity to work with many that are not so blessed, including a blind man ( a very good listener and I was able to talk him into hitting a 50yd pistol bull at 25 yds by sighting over his shoulder), a one armed man wanting to shoot a rifle, and just about anyting else in between. I support any thing that will allow more people to compete and if it includes firber optic sights, then they should be allowed.

Good luck in running your matches, and if I happen to be in OK I'll stop by to shoot.
Mary

[glen ring]

Yes , I am a good listener but a very objective and positive one. I'm looking ( along with others) for a positive solution to any problem in the shooting sports.

Pardon me please if I don't take everything that anyone types as gospel. I will take any positive encouragement from any National Champion and see if it helps me. If not I won't use it. It's obviously everyone's choice to try what they think will help themselves and others and to believe what they wish.

I'm sorry someone may have found so much wrong with the NRA and Mr. Connor. I have found so much good in the organization and so much good in a gentleman like Mr. Connor. I think that his former profession may have contributed to someone thinking he was being curt with them.

NRA membership may not be for everyone and competing in NRA events may also not be for everyone, but I like being a member and I like the people ( most of them anyway) that shoot at these events.

I'm just thankful that we live in a country that doesn't make mandatory, firearms competition. People should have the right to pursue any hobby or belong to any organization that doesn't irritate them, or that they don't enjoy.

I think that a proper delivery of an informed request by an orderly group gets the best results.

I will have a post tomorrow on target colors in my neck of the woods and my perceptions to different colors. I'll listen to others that try different colored targets in their part of the country and just see what happens. If the majority of shooters from different parts of the country ( that frequent this forum ) like a color best , and if a gifted and articulate shooter presents the case to the silhouette committee for consideration ,that won't bother me in the least.

If no change is recommended or accepted, then I'll just follow the rules and shoot the targets.

I like the sport the way it is, no matter what color the targets or sights that are allowed by the Silhouette Committee.

[remy]

Our official statement regarding fiber optics in Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette:

At the meeting of the 2010 NRA Silhouette Committee the subject of fiber optic front sights for use in cowboy lever-action rifles was addressed. The fiber optic front sight made by a manufacturer will be allowed. The fiber optic material should be no longer than the sight itself. This is a clarification of Rifle Silhouette Rule 3.1.3.1. This subject will be brought before the 2011 NRA Silhouette Committee for review.

Feel free to post this online,

Jonathan Leighton, Program Coordinator
Silhouette Department, NRA Competition Division

Now I am hearing the good news that at least you addressed this fiber optic front sights for use in cowboy during your NRA silhouette.But How was the outcome?

[PhxShooter]

Man, you had to go a long way back to find this thread from 2010. Since you did, here's the answer from the 2012 Silhouette rule book:

a. Rear sights may be open, receiver, or tang sights, mounted as originally intended. No international or
Olympic type sights, or extended mounts are permitted. The front sight must be a post or bead or if
changeable inserts, may use a post or bead insert only. A front sight anti-glare tube, which may be no
longer than 1 1/8" to include any attachments and no larger than a 3/4" outside diameter, may be used.

Fiber optic material may be used in or on the post or bead and may not be longer than its support blade
and not to exceed 1 1/8" in length. In an anti-glare tube, the fiber optic material may not be any longer than
the tube or extend outside the tube. The fiber optic sights do not need to be commercially manufactured.

Hope this answers your question.

[Another Dang 9]

1 of the points that no 1 has made yet is changing light conditions. I've only shot once at Raton so my opinion is limited to that 1 time. in the early morning the targets stood out quite well. Then the rain came. And the targets disappeared. after about an hour the sun came back out dried out the burms and all was well again. That's just the nature of this sport I think. if they had change the color of the animals in the middle of the day someone would have cried fowl while others cheer. Again just the nature of the sport I think. Would painting the targets hot pink or orange help out. Of course it would. But it would also take away the skills needed to hit a target. This is just my opinion on the subject. since my eyes are now starting to turn to crap it means that I must focus that much harder and since my brain is also turning to crap that's also is becoming much harder. That too is part of this sport.

[TXCharlie]

Orange, red, etc... are not be visible if one is color blind.....
Rules normally have some reason for being written, it is the unintended consequences that create the problems. It is almost impossible to write a law or rule which will not be contested, or create more problems than the intention of a law/rule.

I am publicly thanking Greg Connors for his action on a request from me this week,
Thank You Greg....
C-Ya,
Charlie

[RBriscoe]

Charlie,

Would you mind filling me in on the action Greg took?

About the sights. People have been trying to improve the visibility of the sights since the first lever action rifle...actually, before that, but the point is that the idea is simply to be able to see the darned sight. A black sight on a black animal, especially one which is in shadow, with a less than perfect background makes it difficult, at best, to know where you are shooting. That's not a fun combination. I have never understood the penchant of the committee for outlawing things. In this case, the rule expressly allowed these sights and then the committee chose to effectively outlaw them. I don't think that is good for the sport, whether one likes the result or not. Nevertheless, the decision has been taken and it is time to move along.

How's the shoulder doing? I hope you will be able to come up with a workable combination for your highpower rifle.

Cheers,

Rick