Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

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AMB
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by AMB »

Very interesting and enlightening thread.

Highly unlikely the silhouette committee will be recommending moving anything anytime soon if ever.

Some folks like Tony and Jim prefer to keep Nationals at Raton because they believe its in the best interest of the game. I know they're thinking about the greater good. I respect they're opinions. They've traveled all over, and would put the game above there own self interest.

What's been dissapointing are the number of posts against rotation. Those against sharing the opportunity for other sections of the country to enjoy the experience of Natationals simply due to selfishness. "It's in my back yard, I can shoot for a month twenty different events, or it doesn't cost us much at Raton . Hooray for me, f@#k you".

Disappointing not surprising, many participants in the shooting sports aren't really any different than the rest of the "me first, American Culture". Al Bean, MCRC
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by BrentD »

I'm very sorry you feel that way Al. Should everyone that wants to keep the Nationals in Raton simply keep their mouths shut so that their opinions aren't heard? Is that really reasonable?

And the people that want it rotated for the same reason - their convenience - are they not also the just as guilty of the "me first" thing?

I think your post is unduly negative and not at all representative of those who have an opinion with which you personally disagree. There is a great diversity of opinions and many more reasons that what you cynically put forward for each one of those opinions. It does the sport and the shooters a favor to allow all of those opinions to the surface, rather than only those that you personally feel are politically correct.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by glen ring »

We love you Al...Have a good day.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by OldRanger »

AMB wrote:Very interesting and enlightening thread.

Highly unlikely the silhouette committee will be recommending moving anything anytime soon if ever.

Some folks like Tony and Jim prefer to keep Nationals at Raton because they believe its in the best interest of the game. I know they're thinking about the greater good. I respect they're opinions. They've traveled all over, and would put the game above there own self interest.

What's been disapointing are the number of posts against rotation. Those against sharing the opportunity for other sections of the country to enjoy the experience of Natationals simply due to selfishness. "It's in my back yard, I can shoot for a month twenty different events, or it doesn't cost us much at Raton . Hooray for me, f@#k you".

Disappointing not surprising, many participants in the shooting sports aren't really any different than the rest of the "me first, American Culture". Al Bean, MCRC

While I don't exactly have a dog in this fight, I'd have to say this post is disappointing me. The ones that want to move it seem to be as selfish as the ones that want it to stay if thats how you look at it. I don't like that you attack one group and give the other group a pass. To me thats whats wrong with american culture, everyone is sure their side is right. Also everyone is sure SOMEONE must be wrong.

Now if you had just left it at everyone wants whats best for the game I would have been fine with it. It seems to me both sides are arguing that their way will result in better numbers, and thats all anyone wants. Its up the folks in 'The Committee' to decide if there is merit to either side.

Now in my opinion rotating it sounds like a fine idea. I think people will travel to it when it is closer to them, so you will get some different people each year. You will always have the hard core folks that will travel to it no matter where it is.

Attacking people when their opinion differs from yours accomplishes nothing.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by hermit5 »

OldRanger,perfectly said.That about ends this thread. %-(
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by 44 mag »

I want to say first off that my wife and I started this because we think we can host a quality match in Pa. Next Old Ranger very well put. And the last thing I will say is to BrentD. It is not a me thing. A lot of us here in the east have travled to Raton a lot still do. Why is it fair that us shooters in the east do all the traveling? Shouldn't the shooters in the west have to do some traveling also. I understand it is a long trip but it is a long trip for us also. The biggest reason it is always in Raton is because that is where Greg Conner wants it. At some point people will relize that Greg and his staff are not for the shooters but more for them selves. And to the statements that have been that you can go to Raton and shoot a bunch of different matches. You can do this here also. That is why we want to hold the CLA Nationals in conjuction with SB and HP. It seems like this has brought out the bad side in a lot of people and this was not our intention. I just hate to see all the negative comments on this idea. Mike Haynes
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by BrentD »

44 mag wrote:And the last thing I will say is to BrentD. It is not a me thing.

Never said you did.

I don't know what SB and HP are, but if those are national matches and there are a number of CLA shooters that also shoot those games, then your point is well taken. Grouping matches together that have some number of crossover shooters makes sense if you have the facilities to do it.

As for Connor doing what's best for him - there is no way he goes to Raton because he likes the place. What makes you say he does? So far as I can tell, he seems to hate the place with a passion. I also give him a lot more credit for trying to put on matches as best as he can. He is responsive to the shooters as demonstrated by his caving to the loudest and whiniest of the BPTR shooters when he split them off from BPCR much to the detriment of both groups. He gave them what they wanted, though he did not personally want it at all.

I think the "bad side" has come out in a very small number of folks. I wouldn't let that bother you. Champion your ideas just as I and others will champion something else. Perhaps, the best arguments will win. That's the whole premise behind small "d" democracy.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by 44 mag »

SB in Smallbore and HP is High Power. And yes there is a lot of people that shoot CLA that also shoot the other 2 diciplines.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by JohnHenry »

I talked to Greg Connors a couple of weeks ago. One of the things I asked him was about moving the CLA Nationals to PA. He said it would never happen with the current range set up. The facilities are simply too small to accomodate a large number of shooters--there were 165 at this year's match in Raton. Even at Raton there were issues with parking, as it seems every year there are more handicapped shooters who need to park close to the firing line.

So, saying that Greg wants to continue the match at Raton because he likes it there is not true. He and the NRA committee are just being practical. As Hermit 5 said, this should be the end of the subject.

Jim Luke
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by 44 mag »

Just 1 last thing. In 1993 we had 134 shooters for Hunters Pistol at MCRC and we shot 2 60 shot matches a day. So we can do it. All I can say is we tried our best to help out the shooters in the East. Maybe the powers to be will look into this a bit more and give us a chance. Mike Haynes
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by Outback Mick »

Hello Folks,
I fully realise nobody in the US gives two hoots about the bottom of the world in Australia but having read this post over the weeks it has been trickling along I thought I might add what we do down here into the mix.
Our Nationals all rotate as far as I know around all of our states & territories. So every year you pack up and head off to some distant spot for the major shoot of your discipline. It has been like this for years. I'll add here that our country is as wide as the US, so more than 2000 miles has to be traveled each way for most of us if the Nationals are at the extreme east or west. The states can opt out for the year and the Nationals will go to the next in the rotation, it's normally a fair deal. This gives clubs/branches a chance at hosting larger matches with a good excuse to upgrade facilities etc. Obviously we don't have the numbers you have in the US but with a population of only 24/25 million having 50-150 shooters to a Nationals is pretty good when you do the numbers. (there are times when you get to a distant range that you end up running the shoot as the host branch has low numbers or lacks the experience for larger shoots. All part of the fun and if competitors don't help out then what will become of the sport? If you want a silver spoon service you're in the wrong sport.)
Yes, we do complain and whinge about the cost, time etc of travel but as we all know if you want to shoot big matches you will need to turn a wheel or two, otherwise you get a dose of the "big fish small pond" syndrome. In my limited time on this planet I have noticed it is an odd time when folk don't whinge about something.
Having competed at Raton for a few years it surprised us at first that CLA wasn't shuffled around at least between a few major ranges in various locations, but not being involved at all we didn't ponder it for long.
Just thought this may be of interest.

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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by deadeye dave »

Hi folks,

I agree with Outback, my wife and myself live in southern Tasmania and next Easter (2014) my wife and myself intend shooting at the CLAS and Scoped Silhouette Nationals which are being held in Perth, to get there involves a 3 hour drive to the ferry then a 12 hour trip on the ferry to Melbourne then a 3,500 km drive to Perth, (boy what a trip to get there and we have the same trip back) but we would not miss it for all the tea in China.

p.s And i'm not whinging, just happy to be healthier enough to attend.

cheers

Deadeye

p.p.s I would also like to add that earlier this year we drove the 3 hours did the 12 hour trip on the ferry then drove approximately 8-9 hours to Canberra and back to Hobart just to attend the ACT CLAS State Titles held on a weekend.
My argument is that if you want compete in an event you will drive to wherever it is being held and be happy with the fact that you can attend.
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Re: Change in venue for 2015 CLA Nationals

Post by Innocent »

As a North Cuban, amen to the the OZ mates that bring up travel, no matter whether in Raton or PA or anywhere else for that matter, its a travel for me. Excellent points about wanting to upgrade a range Mick. I think a more important thing with silhouette is picking a date, for next years match in reasonable amount of time, most need to schedule time off more than 6 months in advance so waiting until November to post dates is too long.

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