How many air rifles???

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How would you feel if air rifle silhouette went to one rifle?

I do not currently shoot air rifle silhouette and WOULD likely start if the rules moved to one rifle.
10
20%
I do not currently shoot air rifle silhouette and WOULD NOT likely start if the rules moved to one rifle.
12
24%
I currently shoot air rifle silhouette and DO believe that a move to one rifle would increase participation.
8
16%
I currently shoot air rifle silhouette and DO NOT believe that a move to one rifle would increase participation.
20
40%
I currently shoot air rifle silhouette and would likely QUIT if the rules moved to one rifle.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 50

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dustinflint
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by dustinflint »

Everybody please keep in mind that we are just throwing around thoughts and ideas here. No rules are changing anytime soon and probably not ever so there is no need for any feathers to be ruffled.

Also, everyone please also keep in mind that I have NO POWER to change any rules or do anything other than modify the format of the matches I run. All I do is bounce ideas off shooters and the NRA.

I understand that many shooters that already have a considerable investment in ARS don't want to have useless rifles because of a rule change, but the question is what will increase participation, not whether we that already have the rifles want the rule to change.

We need new ARS club matches in places like Oklahoma City and Seattle and Phoenix and St. Louis, etc. The way club matches start is two or three interested people get the targets and start it then others get rifles and join in. Anyone that runs a match knows that when the new folks come out the first thing they want to know is what all they have to buy to get started...
richard wrote:The assumption that participation would increase by going to only one air rifle class is beyond ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous. I could go on and on with stories of people who have asked me "what do you shoot" and then their eyes glaze over when I show them my THREE rifles and they realize that it'll cost about $7000 to buy the equivalent. It happens all the time.
richard wrote:The reason there are three classes is to give everyone a chance to shoot regardless of the type of airgun theyj have.
Target rifle is there to draw 10-meter shooters. The thought was that 10m shooters would put scopes on their rifles and shoot silhouette. That NEVER happens. Instead it's just caused silhouette shooters to spend even more money buying an extra rifle and extra scope.
richard wrote:Beats me why more people don't shoot airgun silo. I like it more than Field Target but for that we get participation.
What do you think of the match format I explained above where shooters only shoot one of three possible rifles? It's based on the field Target format.
richard wrote:Target guns are fantastic to shoot but yes, you do have to struggle sometimes on longer shots, but would you want to compete against an open class rifle?
It's highly doubtful that anyone would buy a 10-meter rifle to shoot silhouette if there was one class with no restrictions. How many people do you see shooting a 10-meter rifle at field target matches?

Dustin
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by glen ring »

Ken
I have had 3d archery matches at my house. I LOVE all people, but after 20 guys use the bathroom and tromp across the carpet Jeanne and I have had enough. Then there is the question of insurance, parking, feeding the guys/gals...I'd rather have a match at the OKC Gun Club. Jeanne and I are in a VERY rural area and the gun club is close to eating establishments and hotels.

Our gun club is a nice place and the field we want to ( maybe) have ARS matches at is being updated. Our gun club is VERY nice and getting better.

We will only put on matches if the sport is interesting to us and affordable. We are both retired and the thought of 6 rifles and 6 scopes makes it out of our reach. Two rifles and two scopes...we might be able to swing that and if we shoot we'll put on matches.
If the rules stay the same then we won't shoot or put on any matches.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by Ken Green »

You normally don't see any 10 meter target rifles in field target, but you do see rifles that are shooting less than 12fpe. It would be a challenge to shoot a field target match with a 10 meter rifle because of the arc of the pellet. Plus the pellet from a 10 meter rifle would get moved more by the wind compared to a 20 fpe rifle. The 1.5 inch kill zone at 50 yards for field target is a lot smaller than an air rifle silhouette ram at 45 yards. But on the flip side, silhouette is shot off hand while field target is shot from a supported position.

Dustin: If I had your skill and was as good a shot as you, then I would be willing to shoot a 10 meter target rifle against an open class rifle :lol: :)) ^:)^
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by Ken Green »

glen ring wrote:Ken
I have had 3d archery matches at my house. I LOVE all people, but after 20 guys use the bathroom and tromp across the carpet Jeanne and I have had enough. Then there is the question of insurance, parking, feeding the guys/gals...I'd rather have a match at the OKC Gun Club. Jeanne and I are in a VERY rural area and the gun club is close to eating establishments and hotels.

Our gun club is a nice place and the field we want to ( maybe) have ARS matches at is being updated. Our gun club is VERY nice and getting better.

We will only put on matches if the sport is interesting to us and affordable. We are both retired and the thought of 6 rifles and 6 scopes makes it out of our reach. Two rifles and two scopes...we might be able to swing that and if we shoot we'll put on matches.
If the rules stay the same then we won't shoot or put on any matches.
Glenn: I do understand why you don't want to hold matches at your house. You don't have to have all 3 rifles to hold air rifle matches. Even if you only have one of the three rifles, you can still hold matches and shoot that one rifle if you want. But that is your choice to make.

Even if I only had one air rifle, I would still be willing to hold and run matches. You can always shoot extra matches with the one rifle if you want. Depending on the rifle, you might be able to shoot it in two classes.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by glen ring »

Ken
I'll just wait and see what Dustin comes up with.

I have always been a competitor. I've shot several disciplines through the years, ran in races and even had some ass kicking , unauthorized grappling matches, but I'm getting along in years.

If the rules stay the same in ARS I won't be doing it. I tried HP Silhouette for the first time last year at the nationals and really liked it. If ARS stays the same no problem...I'll spend that money on ONE HP rifle and shoot a few matches each year to keep me proficient . I have a match to run in the morning. Good Night boys and girls.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by GSL »

HI All ,
HI Dustin ,

I did vote that I shoot AIR but do not think a move to just 1 open rifle would help ...
However I do think that a move to JUST SPORTER might be a good move ...
I agree with AUSTRALIA in that ALL in is good , I know that many people WILL complain about any solution too ...
I think that a revamping of the essence of Metallic Silhouette back to something AKIN TO hunter or sporter might BE the ticket.

WE started as hunter and by golly ... maybe a match hunter rifle IS the true picture ???
GSL .
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by TURKEYSFEARME »

I don't currently shoot air rifle silhouette, mainly because nobody offers it in my area, I'm thinking about starting it at my club but I already run the cowboy matches and may not have enough time for both.
Personally I would like to see 2 classes for air rifle, springer and pcp. I think that the many cheap spring guns that are available would be attractive to new shooters that don't want to spend the big bucks on a pcp gun just to try the sport.
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chuckjordan2
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by chuckjordan2 »

I do not shoot Airrifle Silhouette, however, have been into airguns since 1978 (if you know what a Wischo, is, you'd understand). Why won't Airrifle Silhouette grow at more clubs? Let me explain why.

When we lived in the Nothern Virginia/Washington DC area I shot Field Target in Maryland (DIFTA club). I shot in the FT Nationals (2006 or 2007?) when rotated and hosted at the DIFTA (FT) club. I have many LH airrifles, some for Open and some for Hunter class (FT), even LH 10M airrifles. All would one of the airrifle silhouette disciplines.

Airgun Silhouette was not an option at the Maryland FT club (nor did I know of any club in Nothern Virginia that had it- and that is in NRA HQ's backyard). About 10 years ago I moved to the Richmond VA area and weaned myself off FT because the 2.5+ hour drive to MD was a pain.

In Richmond VA, the club that I shoot; Lever rifle SB, Lever rifle PC, and Smallbore Hunter rifle Silhouette, just doesn't like airrifles. I wanted to start a Field Target club at the Richmond club. Word found it's way back to me that 'h3ll would freeze over before airrifles are shot at this club'. And we are an NRA promoting club.

Back to the OP question and the answer I believe is: If the NRA would strongly support and force airrifle silhouette, my club could start and run it. I doubt Alan D. Cors would phone my club and tell them to start promoting the NRA airrifle silhouette program.

I don't think that the 1, 2, or 3 airrifle categories are the issue. You are searching to grow this discipline.

Field Target, their National event, gets rotated around the country every year. Why can't airrifle silhouette rotate around too? I know you are in LA, only I can't take the time off to drive there. If held in the VA, MD, NC area, I could do that.

I hope you can see my perspective, airrifle needs to be driven down to the local club level, then it will grow. Until about 5 years ago, I had imported airrifles from Germany until ITAR took effect, and resealed them and sold many to friends (I did keep the LH ones.....). They are collecting dust.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by GSL »

HI All ,
HI Dustin ,

I am going to go out on a limb here ... MAYBE the NRA is the problem ?
I love the sport AND I love the people who SHOOT it ... but the NRA is not really helping here with the shooting sports
AT ALL ... I mean they are too far gone with political stuff to care about US competitive SHOOTERS !
I worry ...
GSL .
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by BrentD »

GSL wrote:HI All ,
HI Dustin ,

I am going to go out on a limb here ... MAYBE the NRA is the problem ?
I love the sport AND I love the people who SHOOT it ... but the NRA is not really helping here with the shooting sports
AT ALL ... I mean they are too far gone with political stuff to care about US competitive SHOOTERS !
I worry ...
GSL .
It is really hard to argue with this. The NRA does NOTHING to promote or advertise the sport. They have a publication of sorts which goes pretty much ONLY to people who already compete. They do not promote their own matches (esp. the nationals). They expect the shooters to do that.

Unless I'm talking to a competitor, no one, shooter or otherwise, even seems to know that the NRA began as a competitive sports organization, much like the NFL or NCAA or whatever. No one seems to know that they still have competitive sports, albeit, not many and fewer every year. In fact, I suspect that a noncompetitor, learning that there is such a thing as NRA competitions are as likely to be turned off by that fact as turned on by it. Maybe the NRA should sell their competition division and get out of competition entirely. That would be too bad, but they aren't very convincing with regards to their commitment to competition shooting.

Meanwhile, I'm still at a loss as to how shrinking a sport will encourage more participation. "eyes glazed over" doesn't happen in my experience. In fact, just the opposite occurs - people get curious about something that sounds more complex and sophisticated than they thought and they want to know about what the differences are and why.

We used to have small bore here. It died more than a quarter century ago before I arrived. IThere has never been any interest in reviving it. Air rifle is unheard of in these parts. There is, however, a lot of interest in IPCA and other, what I call, "fantasy" competitions. The amount of publicity by shooting organizations, industry that makes the toys, and the general sporting news far exceeds anything we see for all the other shooting games combined. That's where the world is going.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by chuckjordan2 »

Brent,

Let me guess that you are located in a sparsely populated area? Not the East Coast, West Coast, or FL, LA ? Normally where there is a denser population we'll find airgun shooters. On the Plains, mountains, and arrid area (desert) less likely. Reason is that airrifles don't have the reach to even that of a .22lr (exception is the big bore airrifles).

And what is the age group of the shooters we're looking to recruit? Younger, middle-aged, experienced (note I didn't say older)? Does anyone think that if we dumb-down ARS, possibly making targets bigger, would draw more shooters?
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by BrentD »

chuckjordan2 wrote:Brent,

Let me guess that you are located in a sparsely populated area? Not the East Coast, West Coast, or FL, LA ?
Chuck, what does that have to do with anything? What I shoot or don't shoot has nothing to do with where I live or density or wind. That's ridiculous.

I live in central IA. It's a lot like central LA - except colder.

I shoot these sports, in order of importance to me: NRA BPCR (2 rifles), BPTR (2 Rifles), MLAIC (1 Rifle), NRA CLA (3 rifles). Not a single one of these sports is shot in Iowa. In fact, there is not even a range that is compatible with these sports in Iowa. So, the idea that I don't shoot air rifles because I don't live in the east or west coasts or LA (what's special about LA - and is that Lower Alabama or Louisiana (as if it matters?).

Air rifle is dying because it is not promoted and it needs A LOT of promotion. Otherwise it will remain a fringe game until it fades away completely.
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by acorneau »

This thread reminded me of another discussion we had a couple of years ago asking about the NRA's role in silhouette. It's not about air rifle in particular but the comments are still very pertinent to the discussion we are having here.

Put your reading glasses on and dive in.

"Does silhouette need an overhaul?"
http://www.steelchickens.com/forums/vie ... break+away
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chuckjordan2
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by chuckjordan2 »

As I wrote, I've been into airrifles since 1978. I grew up in Northern Illinois and airrifle shooters were far and few between. While some of my friends on the East Coast, there were numerous shooters. I'm just adding my view to the conversation.

Many of the (air rifle) Field Target crowd are into buying the classical airrifles from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. The ones they lusted over when a kid. You know, the ones where real Walnut was used on hand-checkered stocks.

Oh, and I've used the same picture with my logon. They're airrifles. Can you identify them?
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Re: How many air rifles???

Post by curmudgeon »

dustinflint wrote: Instead of having three separate matches, one for each rifle, we ran one 80-shot match. Each competitor was allowed to enter with whatever type of rifle he or she chose, but only one. If the rifle was a springer, the shooter was entered in the Sporter competition. If the rifle was a 10 meter gun, the shooter was entered in the Target competition. Every rifle, including Open-only rifles, was eligible for the Open competition.
Dustin
That sounds like a good idea.

I voted as an ARS shooter that I don't think that changing the rules would increase participation. However, I've only shot a couple matches using my springer in Sporter and Open classes. There aren't regular ARS matches nearby, but I'm hoping we'll have a few more ad-hoc ones this summer.

Our issues are:
- need more than 2 shooters
- need a place to shoot
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