classifications

[glen ring]

I think I may be a master In CLA. I have shot three master scores over the last five years...but never three in the same year. Is that correct? Is there no time limit on the three scores to be a master?

[Jason]

Scores are only carried over from one year to the next. The two highest scores from the previous year for that particular rifle are entered in the current year's scorebook, and those are considered along with scores shot in the current year for reclassification. It takes two scores in a higher classification within two consecutive calendar years to move up from B class to a higher class. It takes three scores in a higher classification within two consecutive calendar years to move up from A or higher classes.

Here's a link to the NRA rifle silhouette rules. Look to section 19.17 there.

http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/ ... r-book.pdf

[DonM]

9.17 Reclassification - Competitors will be reclassified to a higher clas- sification when they fire two scores in any higher classification to go from B class upward or three scores in any higher classification to go from A, AA, or AAA upward. If the two or three higher scores are in different classifications, reclassification shall be to the lower of the one or two; the higher scores will also be used toward any subsequent reclassification. Previously carried forward high scores will be used to reclassify upward. Reclassification to a lower clas- sification will occur only by petition to the NRA Silhouette Department, and only if a competitor has fired 12 consecutive scores in a lower classification. Such downward reclassification may take place only once every two years. No competitor may be reclassified downward more than one class at a time. Also, if a shooter, once reclassified downward (example: AAA to AA), fires a score which falls into the previous higher class (AAA), that shooter will return to the previous higher class (AAA) at the conclusion of that tournament. No competi- tor will be changed in classification during the course of a tournament, except under the conditions listed in Rule 19.17.1.
The competitor’s classification in a State, Regional or National Championship will be the highest held in the 6 months prior to the first day of the Championship.
19.17.1 Reclassification during a Registered Match - If a competitor shoots a score which is two or more classes above the currently held classifica- tion, that competitor shall be reclassified to one class below the class in which such high score falls, for that match and thereafter. Example: If a Class A com- petitor shoots a AAA score, that competitor will immediately be reclassified to AA for that match and thereafter.

[glen ring]

The classification rules are vague. The carried over scores aren't very clear either. I think there will be a new opinion from the silhouette Department soon to clarify. I don't read the two consecutive years thing into it. I've thought that all along, but was questioned about it tonight and I am unclear as to how it's worded.

[Jason]

I'm not sure how it could be much clearer. The "previously carried forward scores" are the two highest scores with that rifle from the previous year and are written at the top of the page in the current year's scorebook. Those two scores are used in combination with any scores shot in the current year for evaluation of reclassification, and it's the sole reason for them being "carried forward" from the previous year and recorded on the page with the current year's scores.

I'm not sure how you can consider that vague or be unable to explain it to someone else. There are lots of ambiguous areas in the NRA rifle silhouette rules, but this is not one of them.

[hermit5]

This is where the sandbaggers and jump aheads come into play.
They never have last years book.The carry over scores recorded in last years book are up to the competitor to fill in.
The sign off by match director of scores very rarely have the move ups recorded.
IMO,if you don't have last years book,or proof,you should have to start over.
I have kept all of my books since the 90s.
Only the match directors have proof of matches shot last year if they even kept them.Thats why photos of scores posted on this forum are important.
Competitors almost have to police themselves if they suspect an infraction,and nobody wants to have to confront someone of that.

[acorneau]

... Only the match directors have proof of matches shot last year if they even kept them.Thats why photos of scores posted on this forum are important.

This is where electronic records would be a real benefit, especially for the larger state/regional/national matches.

Each person's classification could easily be verified against the NRA (or some other governing body) database using a simple search feature on a website.

I seriously doubt this is an issue for regular club matches, although it's quite possible.

[GTS]

Rule 19.5 is very specific regarding the carry over scores.

Also, FWIW, this question came up last year in conversation and there were proponents of both schools of thought, no time limit, and a 2 year limit on higher scores. I called Greg Conner, who I know is not the silhouette committee, but Mr. Conner stated that the scores for reclassification need to be within a 2 year period.

Greg

[glen ring]

Randy
We have seen that very thing...but shooters in our part of the country should know that several of us take a picture of our score boards and we talk to other match directors who do the same. I have put in a LOT of effort to make master in CLA. I have shot a few Master scores but never three in a two year period. A match director that I know very well contacted us concerning the rule and it is clear about carrying over the scores...but it's the two year thing that we think that needs clarification. That match director is communicating with someone in the silhouette department to get the issue clarified.

I agree that the electronic scoring may help the sand baggers.

We ALL know that guy that forgot his book AGAIN and never turns in his scorecard for the club matches but then goes to major match and he shoots a master score.

[Tlee]

Rule 19.5 is very specific regarding the carry over scores.

Also, FWIW, this question came up last year in conversation and there were proponents of both schools of thought, no time limit, and a 2 year limit on higher scores. I called Greg Conner, who I know is not the silhouette committee, but Mr. Conner stated that the scores for reclassification need to be within a 2 year period.

Greg

Aaaaaaand.... this is exactly why we either need a rules committee or silhouette committee clarification of the intent of the rule. The rule can be interpreted either way due to the record book only having a place to carry over the 2 best scores from the previous YEAR.

However... just to make sure; I had a similar conversation with Greg Conner a couple years ago before attending that year's Nationals and got the answer of "all matches shot count towards the reclassification legs, REGARDLESS of when they were shot".
My specific example;
I only shot CLA a couple times a year... I'd accumulated three AAA scores in a 5 or 6 year period, but only a couple in the past 2 years... His statement was that I'm definitely AAA, period, end of discussion.

Under the 2 year running interpretation (IMO, caused by the record book format/wording), it is entirely likely/conceivable that due to the infrequent nature of my shooting CLA at the time that I'd be AA pretty much until I retire.

The point is; We need it clarified once and for all.



- Tim

[OldRanger]

Our match director Mike keeps a running spreadsheet of everyones scores. So he knows (or can figure out) where you should be. Also, I asked Mike what his interpretation is and he said 2 years is the lookback.

If the OP wants to interpret the rules as forever and move to masters I think very few people would have a problem with that. Its the people trying to NOT move up that are always the issue.

Congratulations on your new Master Classification!

[Jim Beckley]

That is how I have always believed it worked, as far as the two year running. However rule 19.8 allows for a shooter to register a class above his/her current classification.

[Jerry G]

As far as I know, you can shoot in any higher class than your score book shows. The classification in your score book is determined by the current year and the previous year only.

That said, I am not sure what the point is in shooting in a higher class. Match winner is determined by the highest score in the match without regard to the class the shooter is in. I have always believed that we shoot to better our skills, not to brag about who we beat but that's just me.

Seems to me the cocky ones about their scores don't last too long in this sport, people start avoiding them.

[dustinflint]

Three scores in a higher classification over any period of time will move you up to that classification. The rule book doesn't say anything about a 2-year period and the structure of the scorebook does not affect the rules. You are Master, Glenn. Congratulations.

Dustin

[BrentD]

Three scores in a higher classification over any period of time will move you up to that classification. The rule book doesn't say anything about a 2-year period and the structure of the scorebook does not affect the rules. You are Master, Glenn. Congratulations.

Dustin

Simply not true. Or I'd be a master in BPCR irons and I'm not.