Little Kid Target Setters

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atomicbrh
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Little Kid Target Setters

Post by atomicbrh »

At age 10 or 11 if I had been part of a group raising money by setting targets at a silhouette match, there is no way I could have resisted shooting silhouette. My target setting probably would have been over after the first practice session. I would have been over on the firing line asking competitors questions and trying to borrow a rifle to shoot the match or calling somebody at home to bring my trusty single shot 22 to the range so I could shoot. There surely must be kids like this now. Why do we not gain competitors from the target setting kids?
Ken Green
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by Ken Green »

Bobby: That is a real good question. I had not really thought about it. Maybe some of them are just doing it for the quick cash. Then it also goes back to getting the parents involved. Are the parents willing to let the kids start shooting?
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by cedestech »

Kids either don't go outside or they are already busy with other sports... not a lot of middle ground.
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hueyw
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by hueyw »

I have two sons who set targets at whittington for many matches . one became an IT for a local drilling
company, the other got a masters in electrical engineering. target setting gave them a meager income but
great motivation to get a real job. both shoot, neither competitively.
44 mag
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by 44 mag »

They just did a match in Ridgway for the target setters. I am not sure how the turn out was as I was at another match. They wanted to give the kids a chance to knock down some of the steel they work so hard to set up for all of us. I think this is a great thing and would like to see it happen more. Mike Haynes
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by hermit5 »

Target setter appreciation match.Thats a great idea.
Leave it to Ridgway to come up with an innovative approach to get youth
into our game.
I would have liked to have been there to help out.
I was at Oklahoma City,they use electronic and pneumatic targets there.
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TheBugFather
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by TheBugFather »

We have had a few Target Setter Appreciation matches at our LASC club over the years.
I also think that our Target setters are allowed free entries during our monthly match.
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acorneau
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by acorneau »

hermit5 wrote:Target setter appreciation match.Thats a great idea.
All our matches are "target setter appreciation matches" because we set our own targets! =))
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by dhatch »

Just curious, what would a set of 1/5 scale resettables sale for nowadays?
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by BrentD »

Do any of you worry about young kids getting lead poisoning from target setting? There is a hell of a lot of lead dust in berm dirt and rubbed on those targets that they are handling at Raton. I see many of them NOT using gloves or using cheap cloth gloves that are porous to lead dust. And then they are served lunch behind the berm and so forth. I hope someone is watching for that just a bit. I don't want to be an alarmist but a little preventative care might go a long ways with target setters.
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by Snake »

My club is a not for profit corporation. Our insurance and state law requires workers compensation insurance for any employer with 5 or more employees. Volunteers if compensated are employees and must have workers comp and we have to pay employment taxes etc.. Careful about using children as target setters :-?
atomicbrh
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by atomicbrh »

Answering the various replies here without using quotes:
acorneau:
All of your matches are not "target setter appreciation matches". The Bayou Club in Houston had target setters every time I ever shot there which were Texas State Smallbore matches.

BrentD:
If you tested the blood of the most active and youngest target setter, you would be surprised at how low the lead levels would be. Because the target setters are in a wide open environment with lots of air circulating around, lead exposure is not a factor. Lead levels like any other chemical are always determined by method of ingestion or exposure(skin contact, swallowing, inhalation, etc.), length of time of exposure and the environment of the patient as in how much fresh, clean air is circulating around. There are many other factors such as existing medical conditions like renal function and levels of hydration that determine toxicity in a particular patient. The contact time of skin on the target is actually very short when setting the targets. Berm dirt blows around but the lead dust is very diluted in the large amount of dirt and then diluted a second time in the large amount of atmospheric air once the berm dust become airborne.

Back in the early 2000's my young son and I were casting and shooting thousands of 45 ACP bullets. We were cleaning brass in a tumbler, reloading, sizing and lubing bullets. In addition to that we were shooting lots of Smallbore and Air Rifle Silhouette and my son was shooting 60 to 80 pellets per day in the shop practicing for indoor 10 meter rifle. Also, I was working as a Nuclear Medicine Technologist for the Federal Government. This means that I was handling lead for shielding 8 hours or more each day. My wife works at a busy family medicine clinic that has contracts with many of the local industries for testing lead levels and other chemical levels in their employees. The local battery manufacturers are the ones most concerned with lead levels to the point that they test their employees on a schedule. So, in the early 2000's she had my son and I tested for lead levels many times. To her disappointment the lead levels in our blood were almost undetectable; way below even what is determined to be average for an American.

My qualifications to say that target setting is a safe activity in regards to lead exposure:
Nuclear Medicine Technologist for 35 years handling lead every day.
Federal Hazardous Materials Team for over 10 years.
Bullet Caster.
My transcript looks like this:
Organic Chemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Biochemistry, Analytical Chemistry, Physical Chemistry, many semesters of pharmaceutics and pharmacology, many semesters of botany, anatomy and physiology, radiation physics at many different schools, radiation safety many different times. Also, continuing education at Sandia proving grounds and at Oakridge, TN. In addition, I worked part time at various times for Nuclear Pharmacy, Inc., SYNCOR and Cardinal Nuclear Pharmacies.

Lead exposure is very simple to prove, draw blood and test it. Even small labs with Associate degree med. techs. are qualified to do this. There is no point in just speculating.

Snake:
Most target setters are boy scout troops or church groups. They are volunteers for their tax-exempt organization to raise funds for their activities. They are not an individual receiving a salary for work. They are a group donating their time. For those setting targets for an individual salary like at the Whittington Center, you can guarantee every penny is documented.
Snake
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by Snake »

Once again....volunteers who are compensated are regarded as employees for workers comp purposes....that's the law in Missouri. Donated time without compensation is another matter. Compensation includes entry fees for matches and may include 'donations' to their group depending on the interpretation of the particular revenue agent. The argument that they are 'independent contractors' has been generally rejected by the courts. We use teenage boys and girls who are paid via w4s and insured...we do not have scout troops willing to set targets....in fact the scout troops who use our facility are not permitted to shoot at 'animal or human likeness' targets....so saith the gurus at scout headquarters in this state. I do agree that lead exposure is a non issue. However we have noticed lead fumes from welding repair of BPCR silhouettes....a mask solved the issue.....which should be worn welding anyway.
BTW our club hosts the scouts, 4H, FFA, and 17 police departments and several government agencies and we have over 1200 members and a multimillion dollars facility and 4 rifle ranges, a pistol area accommodating USPSA, 3 Gun, and IDPA and a shotgun area including a dry fire video shotgun simulator. a 5000 square foot club house, a 7500 square foot multipurpose building which includes an air gun area. Yes we also have an RV area with hook ups. We don't mess with government and government leaves us alone. Every area is under electronic surveillance and entry and exit is likewise monitored.
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by Boyd L. »

Snake wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:03 pm Compensation includes entry fees for matches and may include 'donations' to their group depending on the interpretation of the particular revenue agent....
I read this with interest since my career in public education has led me to have extensive interaction with high school booster clubs and their fund raising efforts to ensure compliance with all applicable charitable guidelines, the various and sundry tax codes, and the FLSA.
It's been a couple of years since my most recent engagements in this area so I decided to take the cheap, easy way out and exercise some Google-Fu. Here's one bit (I emphasize one, I'm sure counter arguments can be found easily) of information (not to be confused with the definitive be-all, end-all on the matter) to add to the dialogue. From the US Dept of Labor's Fair Labor Standards Act Advisor page: (https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/ ... nteers.asp)
"Individuals who volunteer or donate their services, usually on a part-time basis, for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, not as employees and without contemplation of pay, are not considered employees of the religious, charitable or similar non-profit organizations that receive their service."
Further discussion:
"...an individual may volunteer to perform such tasks as ....soliciting contributions or participating in benefit programs for such organizations and volunteering other services needed to carry out their charitable, educational, or religious programs."
To my very non-legal trained mind, it would appear that the Dept of Labor recognizes that volunteers might perform services (set target targets) that would result in obtaining benefits for the organization. Since courts often refer to a "standard" for determining criterion, wouldn't this standard define "employee" (I would hope my attorney would pursue this tactic) and preclude the need for workers' compensation?

May everyone have their targets reset by worthy youths whose efforts benefit a larger mission.
Snake
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Re: Little Kid Target Setters

Post by Snake »

Our club is not a religious, charitable or SIMILAR not for profit organization. Our worker compensation insurer, state and federal law consider 'volunteer' workers as employees and subject to all applicable laws including child labor laws and regulations. We do not use child labor and all volunteers are listed as employees for coverage of work compensation lest we risk rather obvious liabilities. Using under age youth (under statutory employment age) is not a good idea given that most shooting venues are probably not 501c 3 charitable, religious or eleemosynary organizations. Boy scouts or girl scouts can be used only because they are covered by their organization and its insurers....but you will find that they are not as available as you might think or hope
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