Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

General BS, Match Results, Upcoming Events and all around Gossip...
atomicbrh
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 894
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by atomicbrh » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:00 am

1.6(e) State Championships - Annual tournaments authorized and/or
conducted by State Rifle and/or Pistol Associations affiliated
with the NRA, Such State Associations may, if desired, authorize
local organizations to sponsor and conduct State Championships,
In states where there is no NRA Affiliated State Association, the
NRA may authorize a local organization to sponsor and conduct
the State Championship. State Championships will be Registered
Tournaments.

1.7(d) Restricted Match - A match in which the competition is limited to
specified groups, i.e., Juniors, Women, Police, Civilians, Veterans,
etc.; or specified classes, i.e., Master, AAA, AA, A, B, etc.

2.12 State Association Teams - Members, including Team Captain and
Coach, of such teams must be bona fide residents of the State represented, and
individual members of the State Rifle and/or Pistol Association represented if
such State Association provides for individual membership, or be members of
a rifle and/or pistol club which is affiliated and in good standing with the State
Association concerned at the time of the competition. State Association Teams
permitted to enter the competition concerned by the tournament program
conditions must be authorized and accredited by the State Association for that
tournament. Authorization shall be signed by the State Association President,
Vice President or Secretary. Such State Associations must be affiliated and
in good standing with the NRA at the time of the competition. If specifically
allowed by conditions of the program, a person not a State Association member
may serve as the coach of a State Association Team. (That person may not be
a firing member.)


Show me a rule in the rulebook that states that you have to be a member of a particular state rifle association to shoot in that state's State Championship. It is not there.
I scoured the rulebook again and out of the three rules I located about state championships 1.7(d) is the only rule that could come close.
We are simply not shooting these state championships. It does not make sense to belong to multiple state associations many states away.
We cannot attend their meetings. Their mailed literature does not apply to us. We do not want to receive endless e-mails and mailouts about their state legislative actions, their fishing rodeos and fund raisers.
It is not ethical for us to run for their state offices or vote in elections for their state association's officers.
If a state association wants to raise funds then announce these matches as a Restricted Match under Rule 1.7(d) and state in the program that this tournament is restricted(or "open" if that term is better) to members of ("blank") State Rifle Association and non-members who pay the non-resident entry fee. Just like hunting and fishing licenses, why not just charge a non-resident or non-member fee?
Or is the purpose of requiring membership just to show numbers to the politicians?
The main point is stating that State Association membership is required by the NRA when it is not.
NRA membership is not even required to shoot NRA State Matches.

User avatar
OldRanger
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 949
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:00 am
Location: Missoula, MT
Contact:

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by OldRanger » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:34 am

This is why we quit having a state championship match at our club. It is now just the Missoula Invitational. Our state RPA demanded all entrants be state members, otherwise they wouldn't sanction the event. So we dropped it. Kinda sad since now there is NO Montana state championship.
If she's yelling "Pineapple Congress Philadelphia Pogo-Stick" She probably forgot the safe word.

BrentD
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by BrentD » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:57 am

OldRanger wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:34 am
This is why we quit having a state championship match at our club. It is now just the Missoula Invitational. Our state RPA demanded all entrants be state members, otherwise they wouldn't sanction the event. So we dropped it. Kinda sad since now there is NO Montana state championship.
There is for BPCR and people come from all over the country and Canada to shoot it. it is shot in Butte every year on the last Th-Su of June.

hermit5
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:21 pm
Location: NW Pa.

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by hermit5 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:00 pm

It is not an NRA requirement to be a member of the State organization,it is in the State association requirement to be a member and in some states only the resident can be State Champion.
It is an NRA requirement to go through the State organization to get sanction for a State Championship before the NRA will sanction a State match.
There was a post sometime ago in this forum about the value of this requirement in regards to State Championships.
Pa no longer has State Championships for SB,HP,or lever action silhouette,only BPCR still does I believe.
Some states Rifle and Pistol associations have a good relationship with Silhouette.Pa unfortunately is dysfunctional and a burden In this regard,therein no match directors are having them.Therefore,if said State Organization is not supportive or a burden then the NRA should reconsider this requirement.

hermit5
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:21 pm
Location: NW Pa.

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by hermit5 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:05 pm

Refer to December 7,2013 post about State Organizations.

User avatar
Another Dang 9
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1007
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by Another Dang 9 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:22 pm

Randy, if I remember correctly even if you are a member of a club in Pa. you are still banned from being champion since you are an out of state resident.
Its a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milk bone underwear.
NRA Endowment Member

rogersptl
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:12 pm
Location: Lander WY

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by rogersptl » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:21 am

Wyoming State shooting Assoc trys to encourage shooters to be members of their state association by charging an extra $5 or they can join WSSA. They furnish the championship trophies and receive $5 per shooter or $10 from those w/o any state membership to help pay for the trophies. The state assoc does not get any funds on approved events nor does NRA. Still under contention is whether the 'State Champion' is reserved for a resident. Match winner is State Champion in the rifle silhouette matches I conduct.
Close only counts with grenades and horseshoes.

atomicbrh
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 894
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Correct me if I am wrong. I think the Georgia Rifle Association also donated funds to buy awards for their 2018 Smallbore State Championship held in Dawsonville. The State associations that donate funds to promote and assist Silhouette should be commended.

curmudgeon
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:46 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by curmudgeon » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:16 am

I like that our National (Canada) and Provincial (British Columbia) championships are open to all, and recognize both Open and Resident champions. Residents are expected (maybe required) to be members of the Provincial/National sanctioning association.

BlackestBart
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:37 am

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by BlackestBart » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:48 pm

State Championships

The PA State Association (SA) supplies a State Champion Trophy (SCT) only.

All awards other than SCT are supplied by the club or a sponsor. If the SCT is for one individual only, then most AAA, probably all AA, A and B Class shooters are not there with the expectation of winning the SCT; but they are there with expectations of winning awards in their respective classes. Again, the SA supplies only the SCT, nothing else.

Brief history of respondent: Director for 16 years - Pennsylvania Rifle and Pistol Association in charge of Silhouette State Championships. When you left the current years championship, you knew next years dates and place because the meeting had been held the first evening with the Match Directors from across the state in attendance and the date and the place was set. All other clubs agreed to forego their monthly match to not interfere and encourage their own members to attend. Everything was about the shooter. If you spent everything on the shooters and they go home happy, wanting to come back and you did not make a dime for the club, then it was an effort well spent.

My modus operandi on the state membership was that if you were competing for that State Champion Trophy, it would be wise to take care of your membership before the first shots were fired.

The plight of the shooter who does not expect to go home with the SCT is “Why am I paying for something I am not competing for?”. The club has not required a State Assoc. membership for their regular matches and to that shooter and their family, this is nothing more than a match at the end of which, a State Champion will be recognized. That shooter and his family members, if they too have no expectations, should pay no more than a token additional fee to cover that clubs additional costs (Class Awards, meals if served, Cleaning, etc.).
The SA has to pull in some cash to cover the SCT in the disciplines being presented at the Match.

There should be a Flat Fee in a small amount to each competitor to cover these awards. An amount of Two dollars per discipline entered would cover these costs as they did through the Eighties and Nineties. With multi-discipline matches taking place over weekends, there should be a declining scale of fees based on number of disciplines entered over that particular championship match.

After my departure as a State Director to care for elderly parents a number of years ago, the modus operandi appeared to have changed sufficiently to catch the attention of someone in higher authority about the requirement to be a member in order to compete. I understand work is being done to formulate a method that will be satisfactory to all.

User avatar
ShootingStar
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:47 pm
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by ShootingStar » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:09 am

Hey everybody,
I have run the NC State Championship matches for several years now, so I'll cover what my State Association requires and does for the State Championship Matches (Smallbore Silhouette Rifle & Smallbore Silhouette Hunting Rifle).

The North Carolina Rifle & Pistol Association does not require anyone to be a member of the NCRPA in order to win the title of NC State Champion, they do require the winner to be a resident of the state. They also control the design and manufacture of the State Champion trophies each year so that all "State Champ" trophies look similar - i.e. same general design, and fonts, but specific wording for each discipline. Those trophies are always nice and well received by the winners (never had anyone give it back)! BUT - they do make us pay for them. The last couple years they were $55 each! That's a high-dollar trophy, but again they are real nice!
They do not provide monitary support for my match - I don't know about any other State Champ matches, but my guess is that they treat them all the same.
I encourage every NC resident to join the NCRPA, but do not require it for my monthly or State matches.

As far as costs for the Trounament go, I agree with BlackestBart that all the money taken in needs to go back out. My club says that it (Smallbore Silhouette and other matches) just has to pay for itself, so they don't require any income from the Tournament either. In addition to the Award schedule, we provide the food (this past year it was handled by a local 4H group to help raise funds to send their students to Nationals in Nebraska), we provide Target Setters (a local Boy Scout Troop raising funds for their projects) and of course raffle prizes including generous donations from Lapua and Eley - at no additional costs to the shooters.
It's seemed to be well received by the competitors - just wish more would come out for the Monthly matches AND the State Championships!

Hope my input helped someone.
ShootingStar - aka Greg Chandler
Asheville Rifle & Pistol Club

User avatar
acorneau
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:12 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by acorneau » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:16 am

ShootingStar wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:09 am
... I'll cover what my State Association requires and does for the State Championship Matches...
... They also control the design and manufacture of the State Champion trophies each year... BUT - they do make us pay for them... $55 each!
... They do not provide monitary support for my match...

So what I'm getting is they make you buy trophies from them and that's it, correct? Sounds like your state match is supporting them instead of them supporting your state match.

Maybe I'm just too new to the game to understand the politics between our sport and the organizations that say they support us, both at the state level and the NRA. I keep seeing instances where the organization maintains the control and decision-making but does the bare minimum to justify that control.

I'd be happy if someone could enlighten me to the contrary, otherwise consider me skeptical. :-?
Allen Corneau

Ken Green
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:49 pm
Location: Springfield, Louisiana

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by Ken Green » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:32 pm

Here is another perspective. Back in the mid 80's when I was shooting indoor archery, only the state residents could be a state champion. All of the out of state competitors were in the running for the out of state champion. I don't remember having to pay anything extra only the match fee.

BlackestBart
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:37 am

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by BlackestBart » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:04 am

In the 1970s, when Silhouette was kicked in gear in the East by Tom Manno at Ridgway, we wanted to hold State Championships. Because of the Postal Team Awards, if your state was to be recognized, the authorization now came down to two requests. The NRA delegated their responsibility into the granting of the State Champ Match to the State association after the host club applied for the Registered Match status at the NRA, which was usually accompanied by the State Assoc. directors sign off on that clubs facilities as sufficiently capable.
Now the involvement with the State Assoc. is absolutely minimal. We were the new kids and already were self-sufficient in the operation of this sport. We needed an authorization and a few State Champ awards. The State Associations are comprised of folks who shoot disciplines that have deep roots in their hearts and souls. The Directors requirement was to make sure the match was scheduled, the match director had to give the trophy request to the authorized person to assure trophies were on hand to be awarded.

Jerry G
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 2644
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Casa Grande, AZ

Re: Rules 1.6(e) 1.7(d) 2.12 No State Membership Required

Post by Jerry G » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:01 am

It seems to me that state associations are trying to kill themselves.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests