There are several places around the country that don't have the money, or free labor, or materials to build target stands exactly as the rule book prescribes.

They use the materials and target that are available, even if they are not perfect, they're beat up, they're 50 years old, etc.

We prefer to have matches to shoot than to eliminate them through the rule book.

Dustin

I will note under rule 4.1 and I quote "Where solid rails are used, pads for each animal SHOULD be used".....the word is SHOULD....yet adjusting the cowboy lever target to the topple point is also suggested (see rule 4.2...the word SHOULD appears again) "Should" does not mean MUST in the plain meaning of the word SHOULD. We set the cowboy lever gun targets to comply with the rules and their recommendations, their intent and spirit. Our lever gun event uses existing high power rails with pads compliant with that discipline....we practically cannot add other lever pads without creating interference with the existing high power pads, We do not have a dedicated lever gun range but adapt so we can shoot. We have no complaints ...targets fall just fine. We are properly "sanctioned".

I agree with Dustin.....I prefer places to shoot and disqualifying older ranges as he described is counter productive. We host just about every rifle competition and I have to fight to get match dates and the other disciplines would love to have any of the silhouette disciplines end or be curtailed so they can seize the match dates. Low turnouts and complaining simply encourages my rivals....we have already lost BPCR. Careful about being rule Nazis or thrashing about to change rules, or deciding to go bowling instead of attending a match

dustinflint wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:44 am

We prefer to have matches to shoot than to eliminate them through the rule book.

Dustin

That.

I can appreciate ranges built and maintained on a budget. We first started building the CRC range in late 1997 on raw prairie land. It took a tremendous amount of our money at the time just to move dirt around. We got lucky and were offered used target stands for next to nothing from NRA Whittington center as they were upgrading theirs. Two of our guys borrowed a dump truck and trailer and made the trip south. The individual tee stands were still covered in concrete anchoring and heavy. We had more than enough to support the planned 80 animal range.

They were beat to hell as you can imagine but free. It saved us lots of money at the time. Many had to be sledged to remove the concrete for use, others slipped right into dug post holes. Over time our soft sandy soil caused many to sink into the ground or tilt to a side. This was a problem for us. We had a range full of targets that looked like crap at different heights and listing angles. Many of our targets were purchased new and some decent used ones were donated from another local range.

Not happy with the stand conditions CRC bought us numerous lengths of used RR rail. We corrected lots of the tilted stands, added the needed spacers where low and they now serve as anchoring supports for the rail. Many man hours went into this retrofit. The outcome has been a stable, level in both planes quality target set up.

Yes, it takes volunteers and money to maintain a good silhouette range. If you shoot at CRC you are getting a target set up modeled as close to the rulebook as possible.

Very good shooting Dustin, your skill is impressive.

Bob, your point about making changes to the game which diminish the accomplishments of past shooters who worked hard to achieve them is a very good point, +1.

Dustin
Those are great scores congrats! I have to admit that I have not read all of the posts, but I have a few comments and one question.
First high power silhouette is the most challenging sport out there. Dealing with recoil is part of the game, if you do not like the recoil start a different game. Please don't change the game we love! Secondly if the rams in Oklahoma and Texas were set to NRA specifications then congrats on the records. If they were not they should not be records period!!! The question for Dustin that no one seems to be willing to ask is: Were the rams in Oklahoma and Texas set to NRA specifications, this is a yes or no question?

Scott Dahms

high power skipper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:48 am First high power silhouette is the most challenging sport out there. Dealing with recoil is part of the game, if you do not like the recoil start a different game. Please don't change the game we love! Secondly if the rams in Oklahoma and Texas were set to NRA specifications then congrats on the records. If they were not they should not be records period!!! The question for Dustin that no one seems to be willing to ask is: Were the rams in Oklahoma and Texas set to NRA specifications, this is a yes or no question?

This is the last thing I'm going to say about this:

First, I have no power whatsoever to change this game at all. I am not on the committee and I have no other access to changing rules. Plus, I like it just the way it is and I have simply expressed an OPINION on what I think MIGHT help with PARTICIPATION.

Second, both of those matches had target setters that set the targets. I know that the rules require an individual pad for each foot of each target and I don't believe that the range in Texas has individual pads, - also some of the targets are thicker than the rules require so I suppose it doesn't meet with the rulebook. I have no idea whatsoever in Tulsa as I never went downrange during the match.

If you guys want to invalidate my records because you don't like the caliber they were shot with, or for any other reason, go ahead. I'm sure you will have plenty of support and I certainly won't fight over them. If I continue to shoot this game, I will just shoot them again and you can get to work invalidating those records, too.

To those who had nice things to to say, thank you very much. I appreciate your words of encouragement. I tried to be very forthcoming about my experiment with this caliber this year to help any shooters who are considering the small calibers and to answer some questions that have been out there for a while. Frankly, I'm sorry that I did that as it's been much more of a headache than I bargained for.

I'm starting to understand why most good shooters just keep their mouths shut.

Dustin

I’m a not so good shooter thru no fault of the rifle nor the ammunition, I just really love the sport and who all I shoot and socialize with. But I also try to keep my mouth shut but I reckon that is something that I have in common with a very famous Texan, Ron White, I just don’t have the ability.
My opinion is that any animal at any tournament that I hit and it falls down, I’m gonna count it. I think that everyone else should also.

I was the IHMSA small bore records keeper for several years. While giving credit to witnessed records, I endured the inevitable comments and concerns when IHMSA went to auto-reset targets. With auto-reset, a bullet to the foot area may not knock over a target that may have fallen with freestanding targets. That's just the game.

At any given championship, or any given sanctioned match, there must be the assumption from the competitors that the match director and/or target setters have the targets set correctly. If there is a concern from the competitors before the match, or at any time during the event, said shooters must raise the issue that day or file a protest.

It has been my experience (I joined IHMSA in 1983) that when tasked with the "man up" challenge that any shooter can show up the morning of a match and go downrange and check the targets for themselves and file a protest....NOT ONE shooter has ever actually done that. If you want to challenge the target setting, you need to be there and do it on the day of the match, not in the days or weeks following an event.

IHMSA has undergone many changes. Some shoot the 200m rams with the puny 300 Whisper, and if you ring it, you lose it. Shooters have no control over the target setters. If you choose to shoot a 300 Whisper handgun at 200m or a 6br rifle at 500m, the risk is the same, and the rules are the same. Fallen targets score a hit. Period.

To the original intent of this thread, again, congrats to Dustin on an outstanding performance!

Dustin,
Some people are just jealous . Great shooting with whatever caliber you choose to use.
Scott

I have shot with Dustin numerous times, and have found him to be an honest competitor, as with all of the Louisiana shooters that I have met.