Big Changes

General BS, Match Results, Upcoming Events and all around Gossip...
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acorneau
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Re: Big Changes

Post by acorneau » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:35 pm

Sporty wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:46 pm
Why are some calling the classification card a license?
That is the term Dustin used earlier in the thread.

If they go to a system where we have to buy a card for each rifle that's going to hit some people pretty hard. Between smallbore and air rifle I would need five cards. If it's $10 a card that's $50 per year for me and I can handle that. Some guys who shoot smallbore, air rifle, lever action, and high power are looking at $100 per year (assuming $10 per card). That's a big step up from $13 per year. I know that's not going to put most of you in the poor house but it might give some people second thoughts about adding a new discipline to their list of shooting activities.

If they can keep the new cards at $5 or less then I think most people will be ok with it. Over that, and I'm sure you'll hear complaints.
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Re: Big Changes

Post by xpilot » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Wholesale changes in reporting, record keeping etc. for 2019.
Notification begins 10 days prior ?
Fantastic communication execution.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by dscak1 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:44 pm

When the NRA trotted this out a couple years ago, the included information alluded to the fee added to the approved matches. When it was discussed at the competitor's meeting at the Nationals, there was quite a bit of consternation about the amount. I believe $4.50 per score was mentioned by then Director of Competition Dennis Williing in his column in Shooting Sports, which could/would amount to a goodly sum on an annual basis for some silhouette shooters. I don't know if the adverse comments at the Nationals or other reasons caused it to be shelved, but the idea was discarded at the time. I find it interesting to note that on this occasion the idea is to first discard the books completely in 2019 and then, after they are gone, perhaps a "small fee added for approved matches in 2020." Of course by then there will be no other option as the books will be gone. I guess I'll just withhold judgment on this change until I see how it is implemented, the ultimate cost to the shooter and any additional requirement(s) placed on the match directors.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by jbolt » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:27 pm

I received the letter today along with my tournament cards. The letter creates more questions than answers. I sent a list of questions for clarification to Aron Farmer. Hopefully will get some answers before the first match of 2019 which start in a few weeks.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:08 pm

jbolt wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:27 pm
I received the letter today along with my tournament cards. The letter creates more questions than answers. I sent a list of questions for clarification to Aron Farmer. Hopefully will get some answers before the first match of 2019 which start in a few weeks.
I thought it was nice of Aaron to put his email address in the letter. I refrain from asking pertinent details because I know there are plenty of people probably already blowing up his box and the details will flow my way as soon as anyone knows them. I hope for the best but as with most things in life as I get older.... I know better than to take a Pollyannaish view of things because there is no such thing as a free lunch....

But at least those books are gone...
Emmett Dibble, Rosenberg Texas. All hail Jason, writer of novellas and destroyer of small pieces of paper!!!

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Re: Big Changes

Post by rogersptl » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:49 am

Most are commenting about scores needed to up-class. I see there will be a need to also report the scores where a down class may be called for. Would a plus # or a minus # after the current classification serve? Most probably the only scores that will be easily obtained will be those from the 2018 books. It certainly will be an additional duty for a match director; especially for those that are computer challenged like me.
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Re: Big Changes

Post by jbolt » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:09 pm

Response from the NRA.

Excerpts from the NRA letter in Bold Italics.

My questions in plain text.

NRA response in Bold Blue


Dear Mr. Farmer,

I received your letter today regarding the change is classification reporting. Unfortunately the letter has left me with more questions than answers. Please see my comments below.

Based on this letter I am assuming that there will NOT be any score books issued for 2019?

Correct, continue to use 2018 books.



"We are changing the classification system to maintain everything online."

Are the classifications B, A, AA, AAA and Master changing or ???

The names and classes will stay the same.



"Keep in mind that for 2019 the prices for matches will remain the same but there may be a small fee added to 'approved' matches in 2020."

There has been no match fee to the NRA, only the cost of the score book for the year. Without score books will there be a per match fee for each competitor that needs to be collected and sent to the NRA. If so what will that fee be and who / where do we send it?

By "small fee" for 2020 does that refer to a fee for getting the matches approved? If so will each date we have an approved match have a separate fee?

2019 There will be no fees collected. In 2020 there may be a per shooter per tournament fee and that would be turned in to the NRA Competitive Shooting Division. This is the same place that you would send in any payments that you received for the score record books.



"What will happen is once a match is complete the match directors will send in the scores and stat sheets along with any payments and reports required for hosting the match."

Is there a form we mail or a web page we go to to submit the scores? Do we report every score for each match or only when a competitor changes class? Is there a fee? If so what is it?

There should be a tournament reporting form that you would fill out and then you would attach your results of your match. Yes every sanctioned match should have the scores reported. This is how we will keep a record of competitors scores for their classifications instead of wondering if they put it in their book or not. Still no fees for 2019. There will be website that you can go to to enter scores for approved matches. I am currently working on the availability for someone to use the website for other tournament levels as well but approved will be the first.




"As for initial score receipts we ask that match directors send in a copy of the current score record book so that we may input some history into the system."

What exactly do you want and how do we provide that to you? A photo copy of each page of each discipline each competitor shoots or a spreadsheet type list?

If we can get a copy of the competitors score history in their books that is what we will enter into the system. Preferably proof that they shot scores for their current classification but I realize that may be difficult for some. To start I am going to use the national match classifications to enter them in first and then start using books. A copy or scan of the books is preferable.



"We do ask that if you have any 'break out" scores that they be noted in the stats and that the information be emailed to tournrpts@nraho.org as soon as possible."

What is a "break out" score?

This is when someone shoots two classes above what they are currently classified as therefore they would automatically move up one class at the end of the match.



"We are working to have the ability to submit online scores for all tournaments, not just approved."

All our club matches are "Approved" matches, what is the web address?

It will be the same address you use to submit for your tournament to be sanctioned. As soon as this is turned on a code will be sent to you and that is how you will submit your scores after the match goes.



The date for the score submissions will be forthcoming as soon as we ensure it is ready to go but it is coming and soon!

How soon? Matches for 2019 start in a few weeks.

Start sending in your info in January when those matches are complete.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:30 pm

As long as those damn books are gone....

My monthly match I addressed the books with the shooters, most had no clue yet. Most were very disappointed....

The beatings will continue till moral improves!

(for the record, since this is a public forum and I don't mind making my opinions known, I do not blame the NRA or Aaron for this. This is our fault as a community.)
Emmett Dibble, Rosenberg Texas. All hail Jason, writer of novellas and destroyer of small pieces of paper!!!

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cslcAl » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:18 pm

It’s my understanding that the competitors can send in their 2018 scores themselves. This would alleviate a lot of work for the match directors.
I made copies of my 2018 book today and emailed them to Aaron Farmer.
Please do all you can to help out your match director. It’s going to be challenging for some.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by hermit5 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:21 pm

cslcAl,thanks for that advice.
I sent my info to Aaron.He was very accommodating.Hope this relives some pressure from match directors.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cslcAl » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:11 pm

I received a reply from Aaron Farmer with in an hour. He will process my info and send me my classification cards.

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Re: Big Changes

Post by ppkny » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:17 am

Al,
Can you please post the address for Aaron Farmer?
ppkny

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cslcAl » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:07 am

It was listed on the letter that was posted here earlier.

afarmer@nrahq.org


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Re: Big Changes

Post by DavidABQ » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:42 pm

I have to send them my book to keep my classification?

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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:48 pm

I believe a photo of each page that you want a card for... ie: Small bore standard, small bore hunter, etc

I am assuming if you want a master card in every card class it wouldn't take a photo, just a request?
Emmett Dibble, Rosenberg Texas. All hail Jason, writer of novellas and destroyer of small pieces of paper!!!

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