Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

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Doodaddy
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by Doodaddy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:00 pm

BrentD wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:35 pm
Doodaddy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:31 pm
BrentD wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:26 pm
Another nonlistener. You two really need a fight. You will have to find it with someone else. I have no time for people only looking to argue and unwilling to pay attention.
I've paid attention to the entire thread. You can't seem to answer the most simple question of "why can't you shoot your scoped levergun in high power silhouette and require a separate class?" Try it. I'll pay attention. I'll listen and won't fight. Just directly answer that simple question.
Because lever gunners tend not to want to shoot highpower with lever guns. BTW, it wasn't about me. From the beginning it is about those whose eyesight no longer permits irons of any type. (So far, I can and do still shoot iron sights, so this was never about me personally, as much as dustin wants to make it that way)

As happened with BPCR, they simply leave the game. No, they do NOT pick up highpower instead. Why? Is that really so hard to figure out?

Adding scopes to BPCR has greatly helped retain shooters in the game. It is a simple fact, not an opinion. There has been zero negative impact on iron sight BPCR and, in fact, there has been some substantial positives. Obviously, you do not shoot bpcr. It is really quite simple actually.
Ok.............Saying they "tend not to want to shoot highpower with leverguns" is not an answer. Clearly I knew that, which is why the question was asked in the first place. Another nonanswering post and I was ready to listen. An answer would include WHY they tend to not want to.

Not trying to fight as you say, but if they want to shoot leverguns scoped, what about the game that allows them to do that makes them NOT want to shoot it there? If there are reasons, just say them. I don't care if you do or don't, but seeing complaints about being not being able shoot scoped leverguns in today's games is like someone complaining about being hot on the beach but refusing to go in the water because "they don't want to".

I'll make it easy for you and give you an out. A legitimate reason that I could see combating simply shooting leverguns in existing scoped classes is that pistol cartridge would be left in the dark. I've observed that many shooters are very adverse to recoil and even shoot their pistol cartridge rifles in the bigbore (CLA) class acknowledging that they will likely lose rams just to shoot a more easily managed rifle. If those shooters don't want to shoot 30/30 and shoot a .357 in CLA, I doubt they'd want to shoot a .357 at 500 meters. Scoped or not. Otherwise, I could scope my Henry Frontier and shoot it in Smallbore silhouette and scope my Winchester 30/30 and shoot it in highpower with no changes other than scope and be very capable at shooting good scores. Both would fall in the rules and make weight. However, if you don't like the recoil of a 30/30 so much to not shoot it in the game it's designed for, then no, you're right, I wouldn't expect you to want to shoot it in a different game.

And no, it wasn't about me either. The topic of rule change doesn't affect me directly at all other than crippling my fellow shooters as I have 20/10 vision and don't need the lens. I understand there is controversy regarding equipment in levergun to "keep with the spirit of levergun" and I don't inherently disagree there, but I don't think the lens really hurt the spirit as it's no different the reading glasses...we can only escape present technology to some degree.

No, I don't shoot BPCR nor do I know a single person that does. Can't see how that matters other than it's a different organization than the games we're talking about here. Maybe that's significant.
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by cedestech » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:10 pm

I'm going to regret this but...

What club match director wouldn't let one of his shooter shoot with glass?

If one of my guys (or even someone new) showed up and wanted to shoot, I'd let them. I'd even keep scores for them. We have it already, call it the cheater gun class. Are they eligible for anything but a hand shake and atta boy? No. Can they shoot? Yes. If you do it and make some informal rules and get enough people doing it across the country, it would be EASY to approach the NRA about a new class.

Hey, NRA, I have a class with rules and shooters ready to go. Just need your blessing. Easy.

Hey, NRA, come up with a class that doesn't exist, promote it, and maybe people will show up... Not going to happen.

(now I can be the ash-hole)

:ymhug:
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by cedestech » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:36 pm

There, I did something constructive. Everyone on here who would like to see a scoped class go to the lever action section. I started a thread. What would you like to see as rules? Guidelines? Chime in. I'm not being mean or facetious.

:D
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by dhatch » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Doodaddy a non listener????
How dare you call my Son a non listener!!! X( X( X(
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by Doodaddy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:48 pm

dhatch wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:38 pm
Doodaddy a non listener????
How dare you call my Son a non listener!!! X( X( X(
I listen where needed. Image
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by lijeboy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:12 pm

As usual, I deeply regret starting a thread on this forum. It has predictably devolved into name calling and finger pointing. As juvenile as this has become, it wouldn't surprise me to see one of you post "Yeah? Well, you're a bigger one."



In the future I will find some other vehicle for disseminating information.

Geez.
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by dustinflint » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:57 pm

lijeboy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:12 pm
As usual, I deeply regret starting a thread on this forum. It has predictably devolved into name calling and finger pointing. As juvenile as this has become, it wouldn't surprise me to see one of you post "Yeah? Well, you're a bigger one."



In the future I will find some other vehicle for disseminating information.

Geez.
Jeanne, it's my fault. I shouldn't have suggested that shooters that want to shoot with scopes shoot a game where scopes are allowed.
BrentD wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:35 pm
From the beginning it is about those whose eyesight no longer permits irons of any type.

As happened with BPCR, they simply leave the game. No, they do NOT pick up highpower instead. Why? Is that really so hard to figure out?

Adding scopes to BPCR has greatly helped retain shooters in the game. It is a simple fact, not an opinion. There has been zero negative impact on iron sight BPCR and, in fact, there has been some substantial positives.
In this case, since you're trying to bring shooters in that aren't shooting anyway, I suggest an approach to add a CLASS (like M,AAA, A, etc.) for scopes where a few people use scopes, not a CATEGORY where everyone shoots with scopes. The point of that would be that it would not add additional matches or additional equipment to those that are shooting iron sights.

So, if a shooter wants to shoot scoped rifles, he/she enters the in scope Class and shoots against all the other shooters with scopes, but not against the iron-sight shooters. This just purely adds shooters and, like field target, will allow the match directer to create a class if three or more people show up with scopes. I think that approach would get some support.

Dustin

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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by 40-65rl » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:47 pm

This lengthy post of name calling and irrational behavior has reinforced my choice last year to sell all my lever guns and shoot BPCR with adults who do not want to fight about everything. I shot lever gun before it became a NRA sport, then ever year except last year. I watched it deteriorate to the sorry state it currently is in. Biggest mistake I ever made was being on the jury at nationals several years ago when the equipment race had just started. Physically intimidated by several shooters over rules that they wanted and they acted like children just to start a fight. I got to see the true face of lever gun shooters. Please stay away from BPCR. They good folks, helpful, friendly and understanding. I have never, in over 25 years of shooting BPCR, seen anything coming close to what I see on this board or at Nationals. Adults and Christians do not conduct them like some on this board. Here come the comments about how bad a person I am........................................................you have destroyed your sport from within, the NRA didn't do it.

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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by lijeboy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:28 pm

40-65rl wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:47 pm
This lengthy post of name calling and irrational behavior has reinforced my choice last year to sell all my lever guns and shoot BPCR with adults who do not want to fight about everything. I shot lever gun before it became a NRA sport, then ever year except last year. I watched it deteriorate to the sorry state it currently is in. Biggest mistake I ever made was being on the jury at nationals several years ago when the equipment race had just started. Physically intimidated by several shooters over rules that they wanted and they acted like children just to start a fight. I got to see the true face of lever gun shooters. Please stay away from BPCR. They good folks, helpful, friendly and understanding. I have never, in over 25 years of shooting BPCR, seen anything coming close to what I see on this board or at Nationals. Adults and Christians do not conduct them like some on this board. Here come the comments about how bad a person I am........................................................you have destroyed your sport from within, the NRA didn't do it.
Dick, Glenn and I have always enjoyed shooting with you. I understand your reasoning for quitting lever action. I remember the nationals you're referring to; it was embarrassing to watch.

I know how lever action shooters are passionate about the rules and how they react to change, which is why I posted the changes as soon as I learned about them and had permission to publish them. I figured it's best to let everyone know ahead of time so they could get the bellyaching out of their systems before the nationals. Same reason I posted about not having scorekeepers last year. But this thread has reached a new low.

We are having a lever action regional one week after the BPCR regional in Oklahoma. Stick around a few days, Glenn and I will furnish the rifles and ammunition, and shoot our match. I guarantee, there is NO DRAMA at our match. We turn it away at the gate.

And as far as intimidation, with our former careers, we are immune to it. LOL
Last edited by lijeboy on Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by DavidABQ » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:53 pm

lijeboy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:28 pm


Again, I will find another means to communicate changes in the future.
I seem to remember talk at the competitors meeting about a Facebook page being set up.

I guess that idea died and was buried.

I will eat some chips and salsa in tribute to the dead Facebook page.

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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by lijeboy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:07 pm

DavidABQ wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:53 pm
lijeboy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:28 pm


Again, I will find another means to communicate changes in the future.
I seem to remember talk at the competitors meeting about a Facebook page being set up.

I guess that idea died and was buried.

I will eat some chips and salsa in tribute to the dead Facebook page.
I remember that also. I never heard another word about it after the nationals. It's a good idea.

For those who I am friends with on FB, I share information with them the same as I do on this forum, via my personal FB account.
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by dustinflint » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:09 pm

40-65rl wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:47 pm
This lengthy post of name calling and irrational behavior has reinforced my choice last year to sell all my lever guns and shoot BPCR with adults who do not want to fight about everything. I shot lever gun before it became a NRA sport, then ever year except last year. I watched it deteriorate to the sorry state it currently is in. Biggest mistake I ever made was being on the jury at nationals several years ago when the equipment race had just started. Physically intimidated by several shooters over rules that they wanted and they acted like children just to start a fight. I got to see the true face of lever gun shooters. Please stay away from BPCR. They good folks, helpful, friendly and understanding. I have never, in over 25 years of shooting BPCR, seen anything coming close to what I see on this board or at Nationals. Adults and Christians do not conduct them like some on this board. Here come the comments about how bad a person I am........................................................you have destroyed your sport from within, the NRA didn't do it.
I have personally found that it is best to take what people write online with a bit of a grain of salt and assume the best in their intentions. We live in a "call out culture" where people are much more comfortable writing things online that they would not say in person and probably don't feel quite as strongly about as they do at the moment that it is written.

Plus, there is a fair amount of tone and sarcasm that is lost when written on a forum that would otherwise soften what is said.

Also, I believe that the folks that regularly comment on this forum care very much about silhouette so we all tend to get a little fired up sometimes.

I've been shooting Silhouette since 2011 and have shot all over the place and I've yet to meet a silhouette shooter that I truly don't like. I've been rubbed the wrong way and annoyed several times, but I think that we as a group have a really good bunch of people.

Dustin

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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by atomicbrh » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:35 am

On any forum there will always be members who post while drinking. The term is "drunk posting".
They post replies that they would never post if they had not been drinking.
Then, you have the ones who take "pain medications".
Then, you have the ones that take "pain medications" and then drink.
The combination of opioids and alcohol cause people to say things and do things they would never do when sober.

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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by Another Dang 9 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:54 am

40-65rl made a point that I think was missed.
BPRC guys started their own match and many don't shoot HP or Lever Rifle or even SB silhouette. BPCR seems to be its own animal within silhouette while being separate. Able to make its own rifle class within its own group.
CLA does not fall into this category as converting lever gun into something they were not ment to be (scoped) dilutes the sport.
Again this is my personal opinion and my not be shared by others.
Lets keep things civil as we're all in this together.
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Re: Silhouette Rifle Rules Changes - 2018

Post by squinty_shooter » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:59 pm

This is starting to remind me of Washington! We will kill our sport if we do not work together. Suggest we petition the NRA to have discussions prior to rulemaking or shooters meetings, to be able to allow people to digest ideas and form a consensus or at least constructive ideas.
JMHO
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