bolt failure

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thauglor
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Re: bolt failure

Post by thauglor »

atomicbrh wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:29 pm Zoran, just another name for the bolt body that "houses" the firing pin and spring assembly internally and the bolt handle/locking lug assembly externally.
Bobby H
I have not seen the pictures, but I find it hard to believe that the actual bolt where the cartridge rests on, failed and blew back. What I think happend, gas traveled along the firing pin and blew the end cap, springs and chamber indicator pieces back.

If the bolt body cracks in half, that still wouldn't send anything flying back. The lugs are on the bolt handle.
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psteiger
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Re: bolt failure

Post by psteiger »

think 54.18 bolt. It broke the back part of the bolt off. Just in front of where the handle is/was, and jammed the bolt in the action. Yes, the bolt body. Shrapnel included the bolt handle, the black spacer behind it, the indicator spring and pin, firing pin, cap and aft part of the bolt Body. The silver thing. Unbelievable. The case body was still in the chamber. The head (rim) was gone. When I heard about it, I couldn't grasp the amount of destruction. I mean it's a 22 rimfire. It reminded me of one of those pictures you see of the revolvers blown in half because someone put a 44 magnum in an old gun instead of a 44 special.
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Re: bolt failure

Post by cedestech »

thauglor wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:37 pm
atomicbrh wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:29 pm Zoran, just another name for the bolt body that "houses" the firing pin and spring assembly internally and the bolt handle/locking lug assembly externally.
Bobby H
I have not seen the pictures, but I find it hard to believe that the actual bolt where the cartridge rests on, failed and blew back. What I think happend, gas traveled along the firing pin and blew the end cap, springs and chamber indicator pieces back.

If the bolt body cracks in half, that still wouldn't send anything flying back. The lugs are on the bolt handle.
Actually, just got home and took mine apart and looked at it with a 40X loop.

I believe his failed where the bolt / lug rings comes into contact with the bolt to bear down on it. There is a 1+mm step from the bolt size to the lug collar diameter. If that is where it failed (don't remember the picture well) the entire firing pin and guts would launch out the rear. Unless his is built different from my 54MS? (not an Annie expert). Anyway if the failure was there the bolt, lugs ring with handle would stay in the rifle and everything else would eject into your face....

Freak accident.
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No1_49er
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Re: bolt failure

Post by No1_49er »

psteiger wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:34 am I don't know. I just welded the swinger back together at the range. There is a bit of force there.
I doubt that the swinger failed after just one, or even a few shots. More likely been hammered over a good period of time, and finally succumbed to a fatigue fracture.
Yes, there is a good bit of force there but I would suggest that it's the cumulative effect that broke it.

I don't know what the likelihood would be, but has anybody considered that there might have been a gross overcharge of powder given the relatively small quantity that is normally in the case?
I know a lot of people batch their ammo by checking rim thickness, but do they weigh them?
An overcharge of powder is definitely not an unknown in the hand loading world. Is the machine manufacture of millions of rimfire 22 infallible?
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Re: bolt failure

Post by cedestech »

If you compare modern rimfire rifles to modern center fire rifles I'd think you could fill a 22lr case with bullseye and still not damage the action... then again, I could be wrong....
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ywltzucanrknrl
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Re: bolt failure

Post by ywltzucanrknrl »

Good safety reminder for sure. Thanks. I always wondered about the safety factor difference between 22 bolt guns---I have several where the bolt is the only lug. My Walther has two pretty substantial lugs. 40X's have big lugs, but a two part bolt---something to wonder about I guess.

22's run at a pretty low pressure. I've seen folks hold back the slide on 22 pistols with their finger.

I agree with it not being the powder charge---more likely too much priming compound.

+ 1 for safety glasses---I'm a believer, even when I shoot my air rifle.
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Re: bolt failure

Post by Doodaddy »

cedestech wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:51 pm If you compare modern rimfire rifles to modern center fire rifles I'd think you could fill a 22lr case with bullseye and still not damage the action... then again, I could be wrong....
I wouldn't be eager to call the Anschutz 54 action modern myself. I just don't generally associate things born in and around the 50s modern. Image
I am NOT Danny Hatch. Image
cedestech
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Re: bolt failure

Post by cedestech »

Doodaddy wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:28 am
cedestech wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:51 pm If you compare modern rimfire rifles to modern center fire rifles I'd think you could fill a 22lr case with bullseye and still not damage the action... then again, I could be wrong....
I wouldn't be eager to call the Anschutz 54 action modern myself. I just don't generally associate things born in and around the 50s modern. Image
Hush young-un... =))
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Re: bolt failure

Post by Doodaddy »

cedestech wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:56 am
Doodaddy wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:28 am
cedestech wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:51 pm If you compare modern rimfire rifles to modern center fire rifles I'd think you could fill a 22lr case with bullseye and still not damage the action... then again, I could be wrong....
I wouldn't be eager to call the Anschutz 54 action modern myself. I just don't generally associate things born in and around the 50s modern. Image
Hush young-un... =))
Oh come on now. You've to be months and months younger than that! Image
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cedestech
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Re: bolt failure

Post by cedestech »

I did get my AARP aplication this year... =((
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cecawthorne
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Re: bolt failure

Post by cecawthorne »

I saw the parts after it happened at the range to my friend. While I will reserve final judgement until the failure analysis comes in, it looked as if the fracture on the bolt body happened in the bottom of the thread root where the back cap screws on the bolt. As a mechanical engineer, I was shocked at how thin the section of the bolt body was between the bottom of the thread root and the ID of the bolt body. . While the rupture of the Eley cartridge should not have happened, the bolt should have contained the rupture! We shall see what they come back with at Anschutz North America. No bull accepted here.........
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Re: bolt failure

Post by RBriscoe »

I will be surprised if Anschutz releases much, if any, information about their failure analysis or even returns the parts.

They may simply repair or replace the firearm “as a courtesy” or good will gesture.

Even though I have owned a couple of Anschutz rifles I continue to wonder why there is not a U.S. manufacturer which will compete either with rifles or at least actions with which to build rifles that are competitively priced. My only explanation is that the market must be sufficiently small that it is not viewed as being worth bothering with. It’s a pity.
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Re: bolt failure

Post by atomicbrh »

Every American Rimfire custom action manufacturer is now price competitive with the price of new Anschutz rimfire actions.
The prices of some models of new Anschutz rimfire rifles exceed the price of an American custom built rifle.
No reason not to go custom American action now.
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Re: bolt failure

Post by pdeal »

atomicbrh wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:21 am Eley will say it was the rifle. Anschutz will say it was the cartridge.
If you work with Anschutz rifles very much at all you will see bolt housings with casting flaws and cracks, broken ejection stops, parts that are not heat treated properly or not heat treated at all and other manufacturing flaws right out of the box. For the high prices that Anschutz charges for its rifles, the bolt housings and trigger housings should be cnc machined out of billet not cast. The relief hole not being able to vent off the explosion tells us that the bolt housing probably had a serious casting flaw. Before we leave home for every match, we inspect our bolt housings for cracks and flaws. Pat and Allen, thanks for posting this. It is a good safety reminder.
I am not real sure what you are talking about here with respect to the bolt being a casting. Are you talking about the bolt body? There is no way this is a casting. As far as Anschutz actions being weak you can't convince me of that either. I had at least one 54 action rifle that had like 500k rounds through it with no issues. Here in Morgantown, WV the university has a very high end rifle team with some of the kids being olympians. Until recently the smallbore rifles were almost all Anschutz and again these guns get case after case of ammo shot through them. Additionally I once had a 54 action sporter in 222 remington, I still have one in 22 hornet. How can you say this action is weak?

I had a friend once who had something similar happen to him at Camp Perry. The bolt held together though. It messed up the rifle enough that he could not chamber another round. Sounds like ammo to me.
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Re: bolt failure

Post by atomicbrh »

At no time did I say that the Anschutz action is "WEAK". Stop putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
Read all of this thread to find that out.
Bolt Housing is another term for bolt body.
Let's make this simple:
Know the difference in the terms "action" and "receiver".
The Anschutz Receiver is strong enough for a rifle receiver in the applications it is being used for.
The components in that Receiver could be and should be better quality for the prices being charged.
Look at the recess in front of the back lugs of the bolt body under magnification with good light.
That recess area is very porous in appearance. All of our bolt bodies do not have tool marks in that area. That area has the same appearance as a cast iron cylinder sleeve. The kind of sleeve that is installed in engines that have reached the point where they are too worn out to bore, hone and fit common oversized pistons. That is why I say it is a cast part that has certain areas that are machined. The bolt body is steel or some kind of cast iron and is magnetic but it should be better quality steel. If Steve Moore of 10 Ring Service was still alive, he would be telling you these same things but he died on June 10, 2009 from leukemia. Steve spent a lot of time correcting factory flaws on brand new Anschutz rifles under warranty. That is basically how he made a living.
Pdeal, I am sure you have a Rockwell Hardness tester. Ping a Anschutz bolt body and tell us what it reads.
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