Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

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DavidABQ
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Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by DavidABQ » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:49 am

My question is there anyone else who would like to see the weight limit on Small Bore Hunting rifles increased?
With Leupold discontinuing the popular Silhoutte scopes should the silhouette committee consider raising the weight limit to allow heavier 30mm tubes variable powered scopes to be used?
I am thinking is only necessary on the hunter rifle class.

What is the opinion of those here?

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Jerry G » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:35 am

No. [-x I have a Annie with a bumped 6.2 to 20 and it only weighs 7.5 pounds.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by atomicbrh » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 am

I think a rule change that would make it easier for new people to buy current production 30 mm scopes and use some of the custom actions should at least be discussed. Also, if the person is tall like 6 foot 3 inches or more it is difficult for them to use a stock that fits them and still make weight.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Snake » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:04 pm

No change necessary. Carbon fiber stocks, aluminum scope tubes, titanium firing pins and bolt shrouds, drilled out fiber glass stocks, fluted barrels etc make up for any scope weight increase or the participation of extra tall competitors. Did I mention aluminum or milled out receivers? :D

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Doodaddy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm

atomicbrh wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 am
I think a rule change that would make it easier for new people to buy current production 30 mm scopes and use some of the custom actions should at least be discussed. Also, if the person is tall like 6 foot 3 inches or more it is difficult for them to use a stock that fits them and still make weight.
The scope availability throws more wrenches into builds than weight in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, as you know very well I just built off of a custom action and there were not many scope options for me weight wise, but even if I had used a lighter Anschutz action...I still would have had the same scope options which is absolutely nothing off the shelf in its current form and only used. I really don't like the idea of buying a new scope for several hundred dollars to have to send it to someone to change the reticle (assuming they would) only to have the warranty likely voided.

I'm not against the idea of an increased weight limit; it would have made my build easier. Unfortunately even if the limit was a pound heavier, my build would have finished identical how it did with the 8lb2oz limit (except with a fatter barrel) simply because there aren't but a handful of silhouette scopes out there to choose from. Really and truly, whatever is on the used market at the time you're looking to buy a scope kind of forces your hand unless you have patience and the luxury of time. I'd much rather see a scope options open up in the market that allows us some wiggle room in the current rules if I had to pick between the two.

Though in a perfect world:

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by atomicbrh » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:32 pm

I can also see Snake's point in keeping Hunter weight the same. A weight increase would cause major changes to the way rifles would be built in the future and there would be no going back. Hunter rifle seems to be the only weight that people seem to want increased. There are many other Silhouette Rifle Disciplines available to shoot where equipment can be made to fit taller people without running into the Hunter weight problem. A too Heavy Hunter rifle can always just be shot in Standard rifle if it cannot make weight.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by DavidABQ » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:33 pm

:-t
Jerry G wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:35 am
No. [-x I have a Annie with a bumped 6.2 to 20 and it only weighs 7.5 pounds.
Jerry, please correct me don't shoot with an expensive carbon fiber stocked Anschutz 1712?
I argue that not everyone can afford to build a rifle with a custom stock.

I am speculating here but maybe one reason why Lever gun silhouette is so popular may be equipment costs.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Another Dang 9 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:04 pm

Dave if you don't shoot in the nationals who will ever know how much your gun weights?
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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by thauglor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:21 pm

Hard no on any weight limit changes. People have been building them to this spec for years.

If you need more weight, you have Standard class to compete in. No one runs hunter class only matches, so it's not like you won't be able to compete

The 6.5x20 is still available. And I am seeing people complaining about the price of Leupold scopes, no one is going to be buying a $1.2k Nightforce to get the weight up.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by jbmarshtx » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:20 pm

A couple of comments were made at Nationals. Mostly in regards to Standard rifles. I looked up the IMSSU page for their rifle weight limits, and the NRA rules are the same.

A few guys who have shot in Mexico said that they can shoot heavier (12ish pounds maybe??) rifles since they only have 1 class. Seems the standard rifle could change a bit.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by pdeal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:28 pm

The cheap rifle argument does not not really fly either. Mine is a stock 1712 and it makes weight easy. Also, if a person really wanted to go cheap they could buy a cz and have even more margin since they are lighter still.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Snake » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:14 pm

A long time ago Remington produced a 700 Varminter in 308 and eventually 7-08, even with the steel tube old Weaver scopes that wood stocked rifle made standard rifle weight. In fact some clever wags trimmed the 24 inch barrels to 20 inches drilled a few holes in the butt stock under the pad and used it for hunting rifle. The judicious trimming of wood under the barrel channel etc can adjust the weight of most 'heavy' barrel rifles especially with the current light weight bases and rings and aluminum tubed scopes. There's no need to change the weight rule on standard rifles....and factually most off the shelf hunting rifles easily make weight for hunting rifle. Even replacement wood stocks can be be adjusted and certainly a straight taper barrel isn't a viable choice. Making weight isn't a challenge or unnecessarily expensive

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by thauglor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:28 pm

When I first dabbled in silhouette in 2013, I came from across the course, I had a match rifle (3inch fore end, adjustable cheek and buttplate) for that game. I assumed, being it is all NRA competitions I could use my match rifle in silhouette. I found out quickly I couldn't, so I didn't even try.

I adapted to the rules because it is something I wanted to do. If you really want it you will find a way to do it. You can find a 25x or 30x leupold scope for sale every 1 or 2 months or so if you keep looking.

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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by Doodaddy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:30 am

thauglor wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:21 pm
The 6.5x20 is still available. And I am seeing people complaining about the price of Leupold scopes, no one is going to be buying a $1.2k Nightforce to get the weight up.
The VX-3 6.5-20 that you see at matches most frequently was discontinued, but the VX-3i 6.5-20 is currently available. I doubt there is much difference between the two except the VX-3i is 2.2oz heavier. 2.2oz is substantial when you're using a more robust action than the Anschutz 54, not to mention it would need the reticle swapped if you prefer shooting a dot over duplex. This is all assuming 20X is enough magnification. Wasn't the 6.5-20 the scope everyone was boosting to 18-40? Does boosting add weight or is it more of a positional thing in the tube with the lenses? The Ackermans say they won't boost a variable power scope on their site so I don't even know who was doing the boosting.

This scope is a great example of what I mentioned earlier: I don't want to buy a scope for several hundred dollars to have to "fix" it to be what I want/need it to be. That VX-3i 6.5-20x40 is listed at $974 at the Leupold site and $750 at Optics Planet. So if I were to buy the scope for $750, pay the Ackermans $110 to change the reticle, and then get a screw on booster from BulzEye for $160, at that point I have over a grand in the scope not counting shipping to and from. I would 100% drop $1200 on a Nightforce/March/Athlon for it to be "right" from the get go and have an objectively better scope to boot. It's really a moot point though since a comparably powered Nightforce/March/Athlon scope is the in the neighborhood of nearly twice the weight of the Leupold on average.

You're right though, the people that are complaining about Leupold prices won't pay Nightforce prices. People who won't/can't spend the money are forced to compromise on what they want. We really wouldn't be having this conversation if Sightron wouldn't have discontinued the 6-24 Big Sky Silhouette and Leupold discontinued the FX-3 Silhouette models. Scopes that were suited for the game, light enough to be viable, great warranties, and not ludicrously priced. I guess the market simply can't support it anymore. I talked with Athlon a few months back to see if they were interested in making a silhouette oriented scope since they are so supportive of the PRS game, but we just don't have the participation that PRS has.
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Re: Would anyone else like to see the weight limit change?

Post by thauglor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:28 pm

The current line of $2k scopes don't come in a plain dot that every one likes either, so you still have to fix it.

I changed scopes to an older Leupold and am above hunter by 1oz. I am planning on getting my barrel fluted so I can have enough weight margin to paint the stock too. Right now I'm shooting Standard class only.

And lete be honest, if the weight limit is increased, people will still buy the older lighter leupold and put all the weight into the barrel just as we currently are. There are also lighter actions than the Anschutz 54 that can give you the same accuracy for our game.

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