2020 National Championship Dates

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thauglor
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by thauglor »

DJA wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:52 am One of the beautiful things about the shooting sports is that a complete noob can stand shoulder to shoulder with a national champion and shoot the same targets with the same guns at the same time. Many other sports separate the "elites" from everybody else. Let's not do that. Over the course of a championship, multiple matches are shot, and directors already do scramble up the relays and starting animals for each match. That's the best they can do.
But this is the national championship competition, not just a run of the mill club match. It needs to be treated as an elite competition because it is. It is better for the the master shooters to all shoot at once than letting the noob shoot next to them. Let the noob enjoy the show of nice shooting when all the masters get onto the line at once.

And you cant physically put all the master shooters on 1 relay. But most times, there aren't more than 10 people with a chance to win overall national championship anyway, our numbers are too low.
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

In 2007 I saw Augstin Sanchez's smallbore standard heavy rifle blown up off of his fingertips on the second morning at the Raton Nationals. Tony was spotting. I do not know if Tony caught that out of the corner of his eye or not. Even the best shooters cannot overcome that. In that example, if another shooter in contention for the National championship win was not on the same relay and animal at the same time, Sanchez was at a huge, unfair disadvantage. Jeanne, we are just describing the situations we have observed in years of observing the mechanics of the sport.
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

DGA, my quotes feature is not working. Even when the top ten are together on the line, it will work out so that AA, A and B shooters are on either side of the top ten. We had one national event where Wigger was to our right for all three days.
lijeboy
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by lijeboy »

thauglor wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:45 am
lijeboy wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:24 am Champions will find a way to beat you, no matter the conditions. Thats what makes them champions.

Random, luck of the draw makes it fair for everyone
That is just plain wrong. If you are so into luck, just then choose a name out of a hat and make that the national championship. This was supposed to be a competition.

I want to beat the best at the top of their game, not because luck gave me good conditions compared to them. Doing what you suggest will make the victory feel hollow.

If you have two champions, capable of shooting a 40 in calm conditions, one is ending on turkeys and 1 on chickens, and they are tied. Then it starts getting windy, well guess who has the easier path to win? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the guy on turkeys. And then even different relays can have different wind.

I think it is unfair for people to drive 1000 miles, spend days of their vacation on this sport just to have luck give the win to someone else.
To carry your theory one step further, say i as match director have determined Joe Blow was not a quote-unquote top master, and didn't have him on the same relay as the top masters, yet he is a dark horse and is the guy going into turkeys with a 30 with windy conditions st the time the top masters are going into chickens. How is that fair for him?



Now I am truly out.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.
thauglor
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by thauglor »

lijeboy wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:21 am To carry your theory one step further, say i as match director have determined Joe Blow was not a quote-unquote top master, and didn't have him on the same relay as the top masters, yet he is a dark horse and is the guy going into turkeys with a 30 with windy conditions st the time the top masters are going into chickens. How is that fair for him?



Now I am truly out.
It is not fair to Joe Blow, but you also have to look at two things

1) How likely is that to happen? How many times have the nationals been run compared to how many times has an unknown shooter won it? It happens rarely

2) Joe Blow could just as easily get a boost from this and win because he wasn't on the same bank.

In your scenario you are sacrificing 1 (or more) top shooter(s) who have a chance to legitimately win, on the very small chance some AAA shooter will win it.

It can't be 100% fair to everyone over just 3 days. In my opinion, the past national champions earned the right to shoot in the same conditions where 1 animal can let them win or lose.

-Zoran
cedestech
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by cedestech »

In a former life I participated in motorsports from
Canada to Mexico and east to west coast....

It’s an outdoor sport. Weather is always going to be a factor and is to be planned on and for...
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

Joe Blow in that scenario won because the Masters had high winds on their distance animals and Joe had calm conditions on his distance animals. Silhouette is still luck of the draw as to who is on the line under the best conditions.
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

Quite a few of us did the motorsports thing. Track time is always arranged so the same type engines/cars are on the track at the same time. Weather conditions are the same for each class on closed circuit race tracks unless you are referring to long distance offroad. Silhouette is very different. Silhouette can have huge weather/wind swings as fast moving fronts move in and out. Give me enough budget and I will race again but I will be unhappy staying on that strict diet.
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DavidABQ
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by DavidABQ »

I am sure I will hear about this post from someone but here it goes.

I like the idea of a practice day, I can roll into Whittington whenever I get there; I do not need to try and make it for a practice match. It also lets me check my zeros and shake some of the cobwebs off. I also get to visit with friends that I see infrequently.

During the 2018 Nationals at The Whittington Center, the individual calling the match was an A-Hole. I hope to never see that A-Hole at another match.
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

David, the way the practice day matches work is you have a lengthy practice period many hours long first thing in the morning like 7 to 9. Then shoot the two practice matches consecutively:smallbore and Hunter smallbore. Then after the practice matches, you can practice any way you want the rest of the day until dark. Julie and I would just shoot the smallbore heavy rifle and that would be enough for us. If done
right, the matches are finished at 12 noon and the practice match awards are given out while we are eating lunch. The practice matches only take up a small part of the practice day because the whole competitor field has not arrived yet, some people do not want to stay on the line for 80 straight shots and do not shoot both rifles. Some people choose to just shoot Smallbore or just shoot Hunter Smallbore. Some shoot both rifles. Practice day matches encourage a organized and fruitful practice.
thauglor
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by thauglor »

I have heard that the practice day match was a regular thing of nationals before.

And onto the topic of match caller, I was there for only the SB portion in 2018, could not stay there for HP or lever. I did forget to include that info in my previous posts.
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by No1_49er »

DavidABQ wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:29 pm I am sure I will hear about this post from someone but here it goes.

During the 2018 Nationals at The Whittington Center, the individual calling the match was an A-Hole. I hope to never see that A-Hole at another match.
Oh dear, lots of vitriol here.
If somebody feels so strongly about the manner in which the match is being called, did they take the time to approach the Match Director and voice their concern/s?
Let me guess; the individual calling the match will have volunteered to do so because nobody else "put their hand up". Often a thankless task, but without the volunteers there would be no matches. Perhaps they might even choose NOT to volunteer again?
OK; now it's time to put YOUR hand up. Or will this be a case of "It's not my fekin' job?"
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

[quote=No1_49er post_id=101925 time=1570317373 user_id=29436]
[quote=DavidABQ post_id=101917 time=1570303775 user_id=27622]
I am sure I will hear about this post from someone but here it goes.

During the 2018 Nationals at The Whittington Center, the individual calling the match was an A-Hole. I hope to never see that A-Hole at another match.
[/quote]

Oh dear, lots of vitriol here.
If somebody feels so strongly about the manner in which the match is being called, did they take the time to approach the Match Director and voice their concern/s?
Let me guess; the individual calling the match will have volunteered to do so because nobody else "put their hand up". Often a thankless task, but without the volunteers there would be no matches. Perhaps they might even choose NOT to volunteer again?
OK; now it's time to put YOUR hand up. Or will this be a case of "It's not my fekin' job?"
[/quote]
DavidABQ is a quiet, intelligent, calm gentleman. If he exhibits vitriol it is for a good reason. David cannot be up in the tower calling this match because he is shooting this match. You cannot do both things at the same time. David cannot call the matches he does not shoot because he has a job to get back to. Somebody tell me why my quotes are not working right. I would stay and call some of the matches we do not shoot but the wife is not retired yet.
atomicbrh
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by atomicbrh »

NRA RIFLE SILHOUETTE RULES Revised May 2018 #nracs-06
Page 20 Section Under Section 10.7 Firing Line Procedures and Commands

Note: The tempo used to deliver these commands will establish the flow
of the match. The best Range Officer (tower talkers) monitor the competitors
as they are responding to commands. Then they adjust their tempo of the
commands to keep the match moving crisply without causing undue stress
on the competitors. Common sense, compassion, a keen sense of pace and a
good knowledge of this rule book, are characteristics displayed by talented
Range Officers (tower talkers). It is recommended that the Range Officer
explain the range commands before starting the match.
lijeboy
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Re: 2020 National Championship Dates

Post by lijeboy »

Bobby, in 2018, as you know, I was the national match director.

You and Julie were in a room next to mine at the Whittington Center during the Smallbore nationals; we shared a porch and a picnic table. At least one evening, I sat and listened to you talk for the better part of an hour. I remember going inside to take a phone call at one point, and when I returned you were still there and you continued to talk and I continued to listen. Then a couple of months later, the end of September, we spent several hours together in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at a Smallbore Regional and spent quite a bit of time talking about many topics. My point is, you were not shy about talking to me, and not one time did you bring up all the these injustices and problems that you allege to have occurred. Nor did anyone else.

If I have the honor of being chosen to be the national match director for 2020, I will be inviting Daniel back to run the tower. I sincerely hope he will once again travel from Australia and volunteer to help me with the nationals. I consider him and his wife Sharon to be two of the biggest assets I have in running these matches and will continue to rely heavily on them. Plan accordingly.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.
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