Stock change & Silhouette Committee

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RBriscoe
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Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by RBriscoe »

I am told the Mexicans have increased the allowable belly in stocks. I am curious to know the general opinion about the possibility of such a change in the U.S.

Those of you who have shot air rifles have had experience with deeper bellied stocks as have I. My experience shooting air rifles with deeper bellied stocks has been quite pleasant. I find it much friendlier to my back and resultantly easier to “build” a position to support the rifle.

Should such a change be approved, I think someone could make an extension which would convert existing stocks and the weight rules be adjusted by a few ounces to take it into consideration.

Please share your thoughts.

The second question is does anyone know who is on the silhouette committee or if there has been one nominated? With the staff reductions and furloughs that have taken place I do not know if there are plans for the committee to meet, even electronically. Has anyone heard?

Again, please share your opinions. Any and all are welcome.

Thanks,
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by acorneau »

RBriscoe wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:39 am I am told the Mexicans have increased the allowable belly in stocks. I am curious to know the general opinion about the possibility of such a change in the U.S.

Those of you who have shot air rifles have had experience with deeper bellied stocks as have I. My experience shooting air rifles with deeper bellied stocks has been quite pleasant. I find it much friendlier to my back and resultantly easier to “build” a position to support the rifle.
I would agree with you 100% that a deeper belly makes for a much more comfortable stance/position. My most comfortable rifle, and the one I shoot the best, is my Air Arms HFT-500 and I know it has much more belly than my smallbore rifle.

Should such a change be approved, I think someone could make an extension which would convert existing stocks and the weight rules be adjusted by a few ounces to take it into consideration.
There is no question that the ability to have a deeper belly would benefit quite a few of us and that it wouldn't be too much issue to add a spacer to the bottom. (In Field Target they call it a "hamster".)

The bigger problem is with Silhouette in such a fragile state right now no one in their right mind is looking to rock the boat with equipment changes, so I doubt you would get any traction in getting the rule changed any time soon.
Last edited by acorneau on Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by acorneau »

Out of curiosity I just measured three rifles from the center of the scope tube to bottom of the forearm in front of the trigger guard. All three use the same height scope rings (1.45") so the only variable is the receiver/stock dimensions.

Anschutz 1710 with McDonald/Pharr stock: 4-1/4"
Air Arms TX200 "Sporter" air rifle: 5"
Air Arms HFT-500 "Open" air rifle: 6-1/8"

Just the 3/4" between the Anschutz and the TX200 is quite helpful, but the near two inch difference between the Anschutz and the HFT is huge.


Out of curiosity, what did the Mexicans change their forearm depth to?
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by RBriscoe »

I have not found exactly what the Mexican rule was changed to. I'll have to measure my precharged air rifle to see exactly what it measures. It has been some time since I've been to an air rifle match, but my recollection is that, whatever it was, it was much more pleasant.

I'll see if I can find out what the Mexican rule was changed to.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

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The Mexican rule was not changed; they just never put in a belly-depth restriction like we have. Their rules are MUCH better then ours as the rifle can be set up to actually fit the shooter instead of force the shooter to struggle with arbitrary depth and height rules that seem like they were pulled out of a hat. Also, the Mexicans don't have the absurd Hunter Rifle.

The main reason air rifle silhouette is so much fun to shoot is because the air rifle rules are what the smallbore and highpower rules should be and are very unrestricted - makes it more comfortable and a little easier to hit targets. Also, the air rifle targets are a little closer as compared to their scale.

I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with one of the top shooters in the world and he said it best when he described why silhouette is so popular in Mexico: "In Mexico, they've taken the most difficult shooting sport in the world and used their rules to make it a little bit easier and a little more fun. In the U.S., we use our rules to make it a little bit harder and a little bit more frustrating."

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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by Merlin »

dustinflint wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:27 am SNIP> "In Mexico, they've taken the most difficult shooting sport in the world and used their rules to make it a little bit easier and a little more fun. In the U.S., we use our rules to make it a little bit harder and a little bit more frustrating." <SNIP

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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by Another Dang 9 »

I'm not the most rule savvy person but I do remember before the rules were what they are today someone came up with something called a "chin" gun. Never saw one myself as the rules had been changed about the time I got into silhouette.
Maybe our Mexican friends are more restrained when it comes to "trying to get an edge" over the competition.
Not sure but a competitive nature always leads to it. Just my .02
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by chango2013 »

here is one of my deep belly stocks we mix the Pharr RTS and the feinwerkbau 800 for the belly
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by Merlin »

What is the depth of the stock shown? First time I have ever seen that combination.... Is the same general stock used in your small-bore rifles?

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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by ppkny »

Dang 9,
You were asking what a 'chin gun' was. Here's picture of Troy Lawton and David Alsup at the 1991 Nationals. They offset scope mount and high comb really gave you a rock solid stance. Sorry about the quality of the pics had to scan them from a old magazine.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by Another Dang 9 »

I would quit shooting if that's what I had to do to my guns just to be competitive.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by atomicbrh »

That much "belly" would require an increase in the maximum weight rule.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by thauglor »

I'm against any such rule changes. People have spent a lot of money building rifles to the current rules. Any change will piss people off and numbers go down. That is exactly what happened with the chin guns and when rules were changed to allow custom built hunter rifles.

If you are going to change rules, leave it to the standard class only then and leave hunter as is.
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Re: Stock change & Silhouette Committee

Post by RBriscoe »

Here’s a brief history of the rule changes you mentioned.

Chin Guns: They allowed under the existing rules. Silhouette Committee outlawed them, angering people who had, in good faith, spent the time, effort and money to build them. The late Lones Wigger was among them. The rationale was they didn’t like the look of them.

Hunter Rifle: The Silhouette Committee got so “cute” in writing the rule that there were *NO* rifles that could comply with the rule they wrote. I protested myself and filed a counter protest to try to get NRA to make a ruling one way or the other about what rifles were permissible. I sent copies of the protest and counter protest forms to friends in Houston who had fun protesting every rifle at their match for the same purpose, to get a ruling one way or the other and to point out the deficiency of the rule.

NRA acknowledged receipt of my protest, but never acted upon it. They never even acknowledged receipt of the Houston protests. The following meeting of the committee the rule was rewritten to essentially the present rule.

My observation: If there should be a change in the allowable depth of the stock’s belly, it would not outlaw any existing equipment. If a shooter likes their current stock, they could continue to use it. I doubt that adding a belly extension would be either difficult or expensive. It has been my observation that many shooters eith have back problems that are aggravated by twisting themselves into position to suuport the rifle or do before long.

I have no idea whether there even is a Silhouette Committee at the present time, but I will suggest that this would be a subject fore discussion at Nationals and other matches to get a better idea of the opinion of the silhouette community.
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