As for this stuff about Homeland Security buying billions of rounds of ammo, it really isn't as big of a deal as its being made out to be. Homeland Security has lots of agencies under one roof and this is a multi year contract to buy ammo for those agencies to use in training. The Federal Law Enforcement Training center falls under DHS, and they shoot a lot at FLETC.
I work for a government agency and we train on the range at least once a month. We have many different weapons that we train and qualify on. We qualify on each weapon during the day and during the night, twice a year for a total of four qualification courses per weapon, per year. Considering some of the weapons are belt fed machine guns and can fire at a rate of three thousand rounds a minute, its easy to see the numbers start to add up pretty quickly. Its not some big government conspiracy to take up all the ammo on the market.


Why, aside from the US military, does any government agency feel they need belt fed weapons? With that ROF, that would put it in the mini gun category. Maybe you can explain this to me in Winnsboro.

I take it you are directing the question to me?

I'll explain in Winnsboro over a cold one (if you drink beer that is).

I live close to a state LEO training facility. I know one of the instructors fairly well. When a new class of recruits goes to the range, the old hands and former instructors come out of the woodwork to be one on one with each student because many of them are so inept that they are dangerous. My question is: Has anyone with their own eyes seen rimfire ammo used by U.S. Military, U.S. Law Enforcement(GS employees), DoD Contractors or Federal Prison Employees on the ranges in training or qualifications? I do not mean plinking during Lunch time with their own rimfire ammo. I do not mean the AMU which has a small group of World Class athletes shooting Smallbore and need the ammo. Are some of the people being hired for these positions so inept, so inexperienced, so weak physically and so afraid of "guns" that they have to be brought along gradually with rimfire ammo to shoot a centerfire weapon safely?

Ghostofwar wrote:I take it you are directing the question to me?

I'll explain in Winnsboro over a cold one (if you drink beer that is).

"CHEERS" See ya there.

OK, See you this Saturday Morning 4/5/14 for the Match at Winnsboro. Are you shooting Air Rifle also?
I do not think we will have beer at the monthly match but we usually go into town as a group for Lunch and then come back to the range and shoot Air Rifle.
We will be there as early as possible to help Bruce set up the targets.

"Has anyone with their own eyes seen rimfire ammo used by U.S. Military, U.S. Law Enforcement(GS employees), DoD Contractors or Federal Prison Employees on the ranges in training or qualifications?"

I served in the US Air Force. We used .22 conversions in our AR-15 rifles for annual training and qualification.

I'm pretty plugged in to the Mil/LEO community and have only heard of the Air Force using .22lr for training. There are lots more private training companies that allow .22 for training due to high ammo costs and ammo shortages. However, that is private training and the ammo is not provided for the trainees.

atomicbrh wrote:OK, See you this Saturday Morning 4/5/14 for the Match at Winnsboro. Are you shooting Air Rifle also?
I do not think we will have beer at the monthly match but we usually go into town as a group for Lunch and then come back to the range and shoot Air Rifle.
We will be there as early as possible to help Bruce set up the targets.

Oh, I meant at Southern Nationals, not the monthly match. That would be a long drive for a monthly match.

Ghostofwar wrote:

atomicbrh wrote:OK, See you this Saturday Morning 4/5/14 for the Match at Winnsboro. Are you shooting Air Rifle also?
I do not think we will have beer at the monthly match but we usually go into town as a group for Lunch and then come back to the range and shoot Air Rifle.
We will be there as early as possible to help Bruce set up the targets.

Oh, I meant at Southern Nationals, not the monthly match. That would be a long drive for a monthly match.

Yes, Nationals. It's a little far for me as well, to make a monthly match. Wish I could!

As for the rimfire military weapons. Weapons manufactures have been making them for years. WWI, WWII Springfield Armory as well as others made .22 LR versions of the 1903. Cheaper to train new troops, some who had never fired a gun. No different than now, other than then they carried real guns, in 30, and .45 caliber . Not the best way to start of a new shooter, by having them touch off a .30-06 in a bolt gun. Wasn't the best way to start off a new relationship, with your, "new best friend". As for the current service round .223. I have a friend with a six year old son, who with dad's supervision, shooting off of a rest ( to small to shoulder it) will shoot his AR in .223 as long as you can afford to load the mags.
Stay Safe
Mark

Over the past 3 years, DHS has purchased 6x more rounds of amm per person than the military has. It was in am article in the Rifleman a couple months back. I find that a hard ratio to swallow. Biggest user was the border patrol and they engage in "catch and release" so what's the point of them even going out on patrol?

When I was stationed in Germany we had a building that looked like a hanger. It was used as a firing range for the tanks with a subcaliber device that I was told used a .22 Long Rifle round. This allowed practice on base since the nearest tank range was about 100 miles away and would have required loading at the rail head and unloading at the other end.
saikatana

I don't mean to sound snarky, but why does the need for belt-fed weapons need to be discussed in private. I can't make Winnsboro, but I'd still like to know. Is there any reason it can't be explained in an open forum in front of the folks who are paying for it?

High Speed wrote: Considering some of the weapons are belt fed machine guns and can fire at a rate of three thousand rounds a minute, its easy to see the numbers start to add up pretty quickly.

You have belt fed 22's?

Must be a gattling gun to spit out 3,000 per minuet. I want to shoot one of thoes.

Jerry G wrote:Must be a gattling gun to spit out 3,000 per minuet. I want to shoot one of thoes.

They call them mini guns today. Same thing as Gatling gun, electric motor driven now, with a much higher rate of fire. Up to 6,000 rds per minute. At today's ammo prices, that's about $3,000.00 a minute. Your tax dollars at work. All law enforcement need these. Unless your Jesse Ventura, most folks find them hard to manage off hand. You would normally want to mount it in your APC or Helo. Never know when you may be attactted by a heard of flying cattle. Go to the next multi gun match in Texas that LaRue puts on. They normally have one set up there. Each competitor gets to fire fifty rds., last about two seconds.
Stay Safe