Standard or High-Velocity Ammo for Smallbore Lever?

[Jetmugg]

What's your preference - standard velocity "Target" ammo, or something in the High-Velocity range for smallbore lever action matches?

Shooting yesterday, I rang 2 or 3 Rams shooting RWS Rifle Match ammo, so that got me to thinking about trying some high-velocity .22LR stuff in the next match.

I've only been shooting the lever action matches for a couple of years, and have always used standard velocity, based on my experience with scoped smallbore silhouette matches. Ringing those rams, on an admittedly windy day, has me thinking about using something faster for a bit more energy transfer on the rams.

What are most others shooting?

Steve.

[cedestech]

1st, if you don't hit a ram, you can't knock it down. I shoot what ever is the most accurate in my rifle. My rifle is Norma Match (standard velocity) , My wifes is SK high velocity...

2nd, I don't think I have ever rang an actual small bore ram with standard velocity unless it was an extreme edge hit.


IMHO, YMMV, etc...

[edgehit]

Shoot what your rifle likes. If you’re ringing rams with 22lr, there’s a good chance they are the pistol cartridge rams. They’re thicker and heavier. Many clubs leave them out for practice and stow away the more fragile smallbore targets.

[PAndy]

I shoot high velocity ammo, sometimes just on the rams. Eley Force and SK high velocity have shot well for us in several rifles. Force is cheaper and readily available these days. CCI is worth a try, and will probably function well in your rifle. Marlin 39a rifles can be fussy about what ammo they will extract/eject, so shoot plenty of rounds ahead of time to make sure it's reliable. I'd rather ring a ram than have jams on the firing line.
My boys shoot Henry rifles and those things have been 100% reliable with all ammo.

[richard]

I simply use the cheapest ammo that shoots well in my 39A and it is currently high speed hollow points. I have rung rams but not very often. I also shoot 100 yd prone and virtually everyone there shoots standard velocity match type ammo because it is generally more accurate than higher speed stuff. Realize too however that a smallbore ram is a whole lot bigger than the "X" ring on an A-25 smallbore bullseye target. A little less precise ammo may be just fine for silhouette. Bottom line is just to shoot what works for you.
Rick B.

[richard]

I simply use the cheapest ammo that shoots well in my 39A and it is currently high speed hollow points. I have rung rams but not very often. I also shoot 100 yd prone and virtually everyone there shoots standard velocity match type ammo because it is generally more accurate than higher speed stuff. Realize too however that a smallbore ram is a whole lot bigger than the "X" ring on an A-25 smallbore bullseye target. A little less precise ammo may be just fine for silhouette. Bottom line is just to shoot what works for you.
Rick B.

[Jetmugg]

1st, if you don't hit a ram, you can't knock it down. I shoot what ever is the most accurate in my rifle. My rifle is Norma Match (standard velocity) , My wifes is SK high velocity...

2nd, I don't think I have ever rang an actual small bore ram with standard velocity unless it was an extreme edge hit.


IMHO, YMMV, etc...

The rams in St Louis may be of a different breed than rams at other locations in the USA. I'm not the only shooter who rings SB rams at this club, even with solid hits. It's also common, especially this time of year, to be shooting into a headwind at STL (wind towards the shooter).

I need to do some more ammo testing before the next match, but will definitely prefer HV ammo, especially for the rams.

Steve.

[JohnHenry]

Are the rams at the St. Louis range 1/4" steel? How about the feet? Are they oversize? How are they set on the rail? Size of the rail? All these factors can determine how difficult it is to knock them down. As someone else said, I have never left a SB ram that was hit solid. Is the distance correct? How about a photo of these rams on the stand?

[Jetmugg]

I haven't checked the thickness of the steel used for the rams, nor have I measured the bases. They are not the same rams as used for PC lever action silo matches.

The rails are quite wide, well over twice the width of the ram bases. The bases are normally set so that the back edge of the bases are flush with the back edge of the rail.

In my experience, it's not uncommon to hit a ram, only to have it rock backwards and then fall forwards (towards the shooter).

Steve.

[375Short]

I like the idea of the few choices that have a slightly heavier bullet like Eley Contact and Force but in practice none of my leverguns agree with my idea. They don’t shoot it well. My Smallbore Rifle likes Force well enough and I used it in club matches that had notoriously stubborn 1/2 scale rams. It showed promise but by the end of the season and to my surprise it hadn’t worked any better than SV target ammo.

If you hit on something that works on your particular Ram problem run with it. When discovered, share the knowledge, it may help someone else.

I kind of think like with other cartridge forms of our sport it may have as much to do with the bullets construction as its speed. But we don’t know much about .22 bullet construction and maybe there’s not enough difference to matter. They are made of lead, weight about 40gr and some shoot well in gun A but not gun B. With velocity options of 1050 to 1250 ish. Shoot what inspires confidence.

[JohnHenry]

Steve, from what you say about the sb rams, if they are 1/4" steel, then I would suspect the feet are too big. Hence, the rocking motion when the target is hit. Just my opinion.

[edgehit]

1/4” rams are too heavy. Rule 4.1 “rams should be 3/16” thick…” If STL rams are 1/4”, then rams that shot and left standing ought to be score as a hit.

[No1_49er]

1/4” rams are too heavy. Rule 4.1 “rams should be 3/16” thick…” If STL rams are 1/4”, then rams that shot and left standing ought to be score as a hit.

This rule, and others, raises the subject of language that is used in our rule book/s. In the current ‘NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules’ the word should is used 38 times.
Being a pedant, this word is often used as an advisory, as it is in several of those cases, whereas there are many instances where it should be replaced with the word SHALL. Whether or not that happens is up to the competitors making justifiable representation to the governing body to make those changes to the rule book.
Good luck with that!

If one looks at the rules for, say, tennis or baseball, there are very specific dimensions which mean that no matter where a competitor engages in that sport, they can be assured that conditions are the same.
Imagine a tennis player practicing, endlessly, their serve technique on a standard dimension court and then being confronted with one that has the net set 2 inches higher, or the service line being only 20 ft from the net because the rule only said it should be 21 ft., not shall.
Similarly, can you imagine what the outcome might be if a baseball diamond was set out as a 100 ft square rather than the prescribed 90 ft?

The subject of the word should has been raised previously in this forum where the issue of failure to knock a target over or from its stand was raised, but that the targets were not placed on stands that should be the same size as the feet, See 4.1 which reads, in part, “Where solid rails are used, pads for each animal should be used and the pad will be considered the stand.” If there is no pad, then the animal could be turned, or even moved a considerable distance from the position where it was originally set, but was not knocked over or from its stand.
It really is up to the competitors to decide whether or not “loose” language, rather than prescriptive, might determine the outcome of a match.

[Smayone]

A few years ago I was shooting standard velocity and Smallbore only but when I decided to go to the Texas State Match the first time, the match director suggested I shoot the PC match in the morning. The 22LR is legal and a lot of the people that don't have a PC rifle shoot it as a practice match for the Smallbore match in the afternoon. I decided to get some Eley Force to get a little edge on those Rams with the High Velocity. Couldn't find any so I bought some SK High Velocity and found it was more accurate than what I had been shooting....Bonus! But more money. When I got to the State Match the wind was blowing hard into our face. We were shooting a 60 round match. The targets were set five each on three rails. When I was waiting to shoot the Rams two of them on the top rail got blown off by the wind. I shot the bottom bank first and nothing fell. Then another one fell off the top bank from the wind. So I shot the bottom bank a second time and I knocked one down. I shot the middle bank for my third bank of five. When I finished I had nine hits but I had only knocked one ram down and that one had been hit twice. Some of those that were shooting 22 Mags had ringers too, but not so many.
I shot a club match last weekend with Eley Force. We shoot pistol cartridge rams in both the Smallbore and the PC Match. I hit 9/10 in the Smallbore match and 8 fell (one ringer). Then in the PC match I hit nine out of ten and they all fell. There was a light wind blowing about 45 degrees from the right and behind us. I'm not sure if the 42 gram Eley bullet versus the 4o gram SK bullet makes a difference but I'm confident the wind does. I'm planning to shoot the SK High Velocity at the Texas State Match in just two weeks and hoping for a favorable wind. But I didn't really address your question yet. I was shooting Aguila Standard Velocity in my Henry Long Barrel. Both the Eley Force and the SK High Velocity are a lot more accurate in my rifle. That's why I shoot it. Maybe, given I hit the Ram, it gives me an edge on the Rams versus the Aguila SV.