Experimental 200 Yard Match

[Joe Haller]

We have not run NRA sanctioned Smallbore Metallic Silhouette at our club since the 1980s. We heard of some other clubs doing 200 yards from benchrest. That got my attention, as we have a lot of members in our club who shoot in our Rimfire Benchrest Matches. 3 years ago I got our club officers to agree on building a 200 yard range. It was finished last fall.

Now we must get our club members interested in knocking over little steel animals again. We have 80 a them little critters in storage, just waiting to be "set up". We are going to build double stack stands, thanks to your members who have offered stand suggestions on your Smallbore Rifle forum.

As NRA has not set up rules for a 200 yard course of fire yet, we came up with our own temporary rules. They are on the attached event flier. These rules are not firmed up firm yet. I would like your opinions on our rifle classes, and distances we plan to use, keeping in mind that we have a large group of rimfire benchrest shooters and "by nature" they are resistant to getting off their shooting stools and standing on their hind legs.

Joe Haller
In Michigan's Upper Peninsula

The snow should be gone by late April. That will give us May & June to get set-up and ready for our first match on July 11th.

[ppkny]

Joe,
Great on trying something new. The only question or suggestion I would have is seeing that you are trying to interest your benchrest shooters are you allowing them to shoot using their sleds.
This would be a hugh advanatge to them compared to people that only shot off bags or rests. Just something to consider.
ppkny

[Silo65]

Joe

All the animals are essentially the same MOA size at their set distances. The distribution in area makes some, turkey, more difficult to hit than others, pig. By not maintaining the same proportional distances from the traditional 100m settings, the closer targets are easier to hit. I assume you are using the small bore silhouette targets set up for 100m use; using yards gives a 10% advantage.

I was going to suggest just doubling the 100m distances using 80, 120, 154, and 200 in place of what you have. But turkeys at 154, even off a bench, seems a challenge. I looked at the air rifle silhouette distances, where wind plays a significant role, and they use 20, 30, 36, and 45 on 1/10 scale targets. I think that by using 80, 120, 144, and 180 you could learn from their experience with distance and wind.

Speaking of wind, I would disallow personal wind flags (range flags okay), spotting shots, and impose a 2.5 minute time limit on 5 shots.

Looks like you are trying to maintain a true factory class. Have you considered triggers (2# minimum in NRA Hunter class) ?

Have you looked at bullet drop and scope settings to hit a 60-200 yard target with a 22lr? Are your scopes setup for this? I think there is a thread on this.

Rich

[Joe Haller]

ppkny:

At our club we don't have anyone using a "sled", (The $700 one piece rests). I hope we never do. We are using the RFC rules and they would allow those expensive rests only in our Unlimited Class. I have been told by a couple of shooters who use them that they are not an advantage. That may or may not be true, but I have also been told they are faster to get back on target, and that is an advantage.

The reason I do not like them is the "perception" by other shooters that, "they must be better because they cost so much more". In my opinion, rimfire benchrest would be better off without them. In our Vintage Smallbore Class, one piece rests of any kind are not allowed, not even the cheap ones. The same for our Factory Sporter Class. But: Also in the Factory Sporter Class, windage and elevation adjustments may not be used after the first shot. Just like 50 years ago, when we just used a sandbag on top of a block of wood and made our elevation by sliding the rifle back and forth on the bags.

Rich:

I have thought of using double the distance, but our 200 yard range is narrow and the turkeys would have to be in front of the rams. What are the chances of hitting a ram, wihen shooting at a turkey that is 50 yards in front of the rams? We thought that by using 125 yards we could place the turkeys part way up the backstop on one of our 100 yard ranges. (Our backstop is a 40 foot hill) A second reason was that those turkeys are a bitch to hit.

On trigger weight: I believe that in benchrest the "Any Safe Trigger" rule makes sense. I say this, because some shooters do not have access to a trigger gauge. Anyone can test a trigger for safety by slamming the bolt forward several times and using the "bump" test. (dropping the butt to the floor from about 3 inches).

We plan to use the 2.5 minute time limit, and the club will put out wind flags, where they will not get shot up.

On the problem of bullet drop at 200 yards, I see from the JBM ballistic calculator that we need about 25 minutes of angle to get from a 50 yard zero to a 200 yard zero. I am thinking the best solution here is to encourage the shooters to get Burris Signature rings.
Go here for a demo:
http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html

Can you give me info on where to get the tapered bases?

I don't like using a .010" shim in the rear base unless the shooter would also lap both rings to assure the tube would not be stressed.

I want to thank you guys for your comments. We have 4 months left, to plan for our first match. We want to do this right and we will consider all the advice you guys can give us. It takes volunteers to run matches. If this benchrest thing catches on, I have hopes we will get a few club volunteers to start running NRA sanctioned standing matches again. We have to start with benchrest, as that is were the interest is at our club right now.

Thanks again for your advice.

Joe Haller :-)

[Silo65]

Joe

You got to go with what works for your range. Sounds like you have it under control.

Trigger weight was directed solely at the Hunter class guns and your effort to keep them a true hunter class. An aftermarket trigger, costing a good portion of $500, would provide an advantage I think your trying to eliminate in the class.

I can't help you with tapered bases as I use the Burris rings myself. Nice rings but they are heavy at about 4.5 oz / ring set sans bases. Many others are shimming or using custom rings.

Looks like Fick 1241 is running a match similar to yours this month. He'll probably provide feedback shortly.

http://www.steelchickens.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=2848

Good luck, sounds like fun.

Rich

[Fick_2141]

That is a great flyer you have made. There are a few clubs looking into the possibilities of shooting the small bore silhouettes at longer distances.
I jokingly tell people that I am the originator of the concept, but I know that as long as there have been targets to shoot, people have been taking them further and further out to see if they can hit them with regularity and making a game out of it.
As a show off stunt I started shooting a ram swinger at 300 yrds from a bench with my Win 52B and standard vel ammo. I had to use the bench because the swinger wasn't tall enough to see from the prone position. I was able to hit the swinger 15 out of 20 shots on a calm day. It took about 7 feet of elevation, and almost a foot of drift. (A vintage Lyman STS has plenty of room to get the zero) That's when I began to contemplate a course of fire for long range silhouettes.
I can tell you from my own tests, on the subject, that the scores will be and should be very high when compared to the scores of established silhouette shooters, if shooting from a bench. The layout of your match should prove to be very popular, whereas mine may be too much for the average plinker, much like traditional silhouette competition. My layout requires shooters to be familiar with marksmanship fundamentals of long range shooting, use of a sling, and more suited to target rifles that aren't cheap old or new. My layout doubles the distance for each animal, shooting in the sitting position for the chicken and pig, and prone for the turkey and ram. No bipods or bags allowed.
I wanted to create something that appeals to my own sence of marksmanship knowledge and experience that lends it self to other competitive shooting disciplines offered at my club.
The match I envision had to have continuity with the skill, dedication, and history required of traditional silhouettes, National Match rimfire, long range Palma, and high power match/service rifle. I'm looking for safe queen rimfires to have their day in the sun again against state of the art Anschutz position rifles, NM AR-15 rimfires, and US martial .22s This should be real challenge for any accomplished long range competitive shooter.
Your match looks great. It will appeal to more shooters of a much wider base of experience in shooting. It's another way to see the possibilities of shooting silhouettes. Good luck. Keep me posted on how well it is recieved. But it would break my heart to see long range silhouettes take off as a bechrest game. I support you 100% just call it "benchrest silhouettes". I hope I can get my YouTube movie done this weekend.