Question regarding spotting

[j1132s]

Wow, this is harder than it looked. I just bought my first .22LR rifle a few days ago (I should probably say I just _shot_ a .22LR rifle for the first time a few days ago and wanted to try out smallbore silhouette.

So, I went to the range yesterday to zero my 9x scope at 40, 60, 77, and 100m. I picked the range that holds the local matches, so there're already stands and target holders at those distances.

Anyway, while I was zeroing, a silhouette shooter offered to lend me a set of targets to try out. Oh boy, I think those pesky chickens are the hardest; I must have send 40 rounds to knock down just 4 of them.

The turkey and rams weren't too bad, I get them at about 30-50% of the time, so not as many reloads there. The pigs also gave me some trouble (but I initially forgot to change my scope setting for the pigs). I'm not sure if it is bad scope zero or nervousness, but I couldn't believe how hard it is to hit those targets!

At match day, there's supposed to be a spotter to help you. I have some questions for the spotters.

1. On the range I shot at, the near distances all have a bullet trap behind the rails. I couldn't tell where my bullets are striking when I miss because no dirt gets kicked up. How do you know where you missed in this case?

2. When observing, when do you know the shooter is about to fire (and therefore focus attention on the target) ? Does the shooter give some signal like move his head, foot, etc. right before pulling the trigger?

3. Do shooters and spotters take turns shooting and spotting each other? I don't think I have the ability to spot yet. What happens when a shooter is paired up with somebody who doesn't really know how to spot?

4. Is it always 1 shooter to 1 spotter? Or does 1 spotter spot for multiple shooters?

Sorry for these basic questions. I guess I should have asked the silhouette shooters on the range, but somehow I was too shy. I'd appreciate your answers and thanks in advance.

[Innocent]

1. On the range I shot at, the near distances all have a bullet trap behind the rails. I couldn't tell where my bullets are striking when I miss because no dirt gets kicked up. How do you know where you missed in this case?


With experience comes the ability to actually see the bullet in flight, occasionally even an good spotter has difficulty seeing the bullet if the lighting is wrong.

When observing, when do you know the shooter is about to fire (and therefore focus attention on the target) ? Does the shooter give some signal like move his head, foot, etc. right before pulling the trigger?


A good spotter keeps an eye on the scoped animal at all times, occasionally you will hear a spotter say, "I was loking at the timer...etc, missed seing that one"

Do shooters and spotters take turns shooting and spotting each other? I don't think I have the ability to spot yet. What happens when a shooter is paired up with somebody who doesn't really know how to spot?



Yes, usually, to the first part of the question. In response to the rest of the question, all shooters I have shot with are more than willing to work with a newbie in teaching to spot. There are several ways this can be done, 1) sit with a shooter/spotter pair with your own scope and observe the communication/actions. 2) have the shooter call the shot placement and (tell you where they think they hit) and you will eventually begin to pick up the bullet flight and impact motin of the animals. Most good shooters can shoot alone, unless the conditions are changing rapidly, and therefore unless the stakes are extremely high they tend to be more than willing to work with a new shooter in learning to spot.

Is it always 1 shooter to 1 spotter? Or does 1 spotter spot for multiple shooters?

Usually one spotter per shotter as it is difficult to focus on two animals on different banks for the spotter. Occasionally a shooter will listen to the calls of other spotters for condition changes. It is also difficult for the shooter to have their hearing tuned to a voice and be distracted by that voice talking to the other shooter.

Hope this helps some.

Mary

[GeoNLR]

Welcome !

1. On the range I shot at, the near distances all have a bullet trap behind the rails. I couldn't tell where my bullets are striking when I miss because no dirt gets kicked up. How do you know where you missed in this case?

Shoot paper (paper with printed animal shapes on it)

2. When observing, when do you know the shooter is about to fire (and therefore focus attention on the target) ? Does the shooter give some signal like move his head, foot, etc. right before pulling the trigger?

No, the shooter will take the shot when it's there, would be too much of a distraction I would think for the shooter to indicate this intent to the spoter

3. Do shooters and spotters take turns shooting and spotting each other? I don't think I have the ability to spot yet. What happens when a shooter is paired up with somebody who doesn't really know how to spot?

Just watch and call the impact IF YOU SAW IT, worst thing you can do is guess, or give the shooter a ton of info to try and figgure on. Low under the tail, right above the hump, below the nose, between the legs, etc. Basic short info. Now trust me, there are folks here that know a TON more than me and have alot more info to offer, I would suspect you and I are in the same boat, best you can start out with is learning to accurately determine where the bullet hit / missed

4. Is it always 1 shooter to 1 spotter? Or does 1 spotter spot for multiple shooters?

1 spotter per shooter..it's in da rulz....

10.7 (e) Each shooter may have one coach with them on the firing line who may have scopes or binos and advise the shooter where the shots are going, keep time or otherwise advide. The coach may not touch the shooter or the shooter's equipment between the ready command and the cease fire command, except in black powder cartridge rifle comp, the coach may hand the rifle to the shooter who is in the cross sticks position.

OH, have fun, spotting is one of the best parts of the game. I made the mistake at first by getting too excited by what I saw through the spotting scope... you can not over animate, it will work the shooter up and affect their proformance. Oh did I mention to have fun?

Chicken


.

[mordecai]

Innocent is bucking for the Best Answer award for February.

I'll add that spotting smallbore in-flight is difficult, especially in less than ideal lighting. You'll often look for the "splatter" on the animal in that fraction of a second it's there to tell you where it hit. Also, you'll learn which way an animal flips and spins in response to where it got tagged.

[Jason]

Just a note here, the first time I had someone actually spotting for me was at the Conard Cup in 2005 and it just so happened to be Innocent. It made a TON of difference and she knows what she speaks of when it comes to spotting.

[Innocent]

Jason,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, I do have a 16 year old that will disagree with you at times Jason and swear that I am the worst spotter. Guess it is the shooter and not the spotter Duckgumbo!!!, hate to burst your bubble on that one.

BTW I failed to mention that placing yourself (as a spotter) inline with the barrel of the gun the shooter is using has a lot to do with being able to see the bullet in flight. THis being the case it is a little difficult to pick all the tricks when trying to observe a spotter/shooter team in action.

Also NEVER EVER (for learning how to spot)watch the Tureau/McCullough team when they are on the line. I think they have finally come to the divorce part!!!! Of course it is rather amusing to watch for learning how to have selective hearing or other important actions one might need to survive marriage.
Innocent

[Jason]

For anyone wanting to see truly good spotter/shooter teams, check out Chris Winstead spotting for Cathy or Dave Imas spotting for Jared Perry.

[BlauBear]

1. It's best to stay next to the shooter and a little behind. Never in front.
2. I can only see bullets in flight with good optics. It was neat to see the bullet headed out to the Ram line through a Leupold VX-II, and then I tried a VX-III and could see 'em chase Chickens.
3. Stay sensitive to your shooters' needs. I can tune out a chatty spotter, but have spotted for folks that invited me to shut the **** up. Before I said anything.
4. Spotting boards (small cork boards with outlines of the animals drawn on them, and a push pin used for marking POI) are handy if you remember to use them. When you're new, like me, it all gets pretty confusing.
5. Mounted binoculars seemed easier to use, but ask me again after a couple more outings.

[Jerry G]

The hardest thing about spotting is remembering what you saw and conveying that information to the shooter. You have to have good optics. The second hardest thing about spotting is knowing when to keep your mouth shut and not break the concertration of the shooter. A shooter remembers the last thing they hear so don't tell him how to miss, tell him where to hit the animal. There is a lot of chatter on the line about very small winds that don't affect your bullet that much and at the chickens, it dosen't matter. A 10 mph wind at 90 degrees at 100m will move the bullet a little over 4 inches so at the turkeys and rams it matters a lot. Once again, tell the shooter where to hold, not how much wind there is.

[Innocent]

Jerry,
I feel that the amount the spotter talks to the shooter is a communciation between them, some do prefer the talk, and for me I tend to prefer the knowledge of windspeed and mirage movement for me to process where to hold myself, knowing what my hold pattern may be for that time.

I will agree that some shooters so not know how to proces that kind of information and I have spotted for a number of shooters that just prefer to be told what point on the animal to hold.
Thus the spotter/shooter pairing can be a very personal preference. A good spotter can read what the shooter wants eventually, but it is certainly easier if the shooter will express their preferences before starting a string.

Mary

[sobrbiker883]

I'm fairly new at this, but when spotting I try to be honest. If I couldn't tell if it went over or under the ram's head, for instance, I will say I couldn't tell. I feel a bad call is worse than no call, and as a shooter (even a novitiate one), I can see where I broke/shot hit when I'm following through correctly.

I prefer to be told of a mirage shift at turkeys and rams, I'll usually stop my shot setup enough to catch a flag outta my left eye and adjust myself.

When spotting I'll usually comment if a mirage shifts. "left to right" or "don't break a shot right" for instance.

I also like to ask the shooter what kind of input if any they want......

Maybe my advice will mean something when I get good

[lone ringer]

A 10 mph wind at 90 degrees at 100m will move the bullet a little over 4 inches so at the turkeys and rams it matters a lot.
[/quote]

Jerry, I was wondering if you would be so kind and tell us how you arrived at that conclusion? I would have thought that a 10 mph wind blowing from 9:00 which is 180 degrees would only move your bullet about 2 inches and if it was blowing at 90 degrees it would only be worth half the value or about 1 inch.

[Feez]

I've been wondering about this communication issue. When I'm the spotter, I want to know exactly what the shooter wants to hear. But (with different guys) I'll ask before the match and get a very short generic answer. Then while he's shooting I'm worrying 'am I too chatty / not enough info' etc. I fear that he won't tell me now, he'll just tolerate me because discussing it at this point will raise blood pressure. (even between relays)

When I'm shooting I want to hear anything positive, even if it is a lie.

Any suggestions on how to get this out of the way before the match?

[atomicbrh]

Believe everything that Innocent says about spotting. She knows her stuff and has seen more of a variety of range conditions across America in the past few years than anyone I know that is shooting Silhouette. Mary spoke the truth when she said that teenagers are very hard to spot for at times. Shooters want to hear different things. My son will accept any input on turkeys and rams when he is not at the point when he is going to break the shot. If it takes me more than one animal to call wind correctly on turkeys and rams he gets mad at me. He does not want to hear a word from me on pigs and chickens unless there is an extreme wind at pigs. On pigs he will know which direction the wind is blowing the bullet but will want to know from me how much to compensate for wind speed. I am the opposite when my son spots for me. If I am having trouble with my hold or concentration at chicken and pigs, I will tell my son "Talk to me". That means I never want him to stop talking the entire 2 and 1/2 minutes even as I am breaking the shot. I want him to go over the basics while he is talking. For instance: "Number 2 chicken now. Take your time. Do not settle for anything but the best shot. Move slow into the target. Easy and slow on the trigger. If the hold is not there Dad, start your shot process over" and so on. My son's calm steady voice helps me with my confidence level and helps me overcome any problems I am having in executing the shot. In my opinion, the spotter is responsible for taking care of his shooter so that the shooter can let his mind be simple and not have to compute too many factors. There are some great, talented spotters that I cannot shoot with because they give too much conflicting information too quickly especially in switching wind conditions and there are some great, talented shooters out there that do not reap the full benefit of their spotter because of the lack of opportunities that the shooter and spotter have to practice with each other. When family members or friends that spend a lot of time together spot and shoot at practice and matchs, a special chemistry is developed over time. When you live, travel and eat with your spotter/shooter you talk about spotting and shooting constantly and this improves performance dramatically. At many local matchs nowadays, people use the flow match instead of the relay method and do not use a spotter because competitors just want to shoot, not spot and get finished as soon as possible and go do other things. I do not think this is good. You should never give up a single opportunity to work with your spotter/shooter team. I am only sure of one thing about the wind: Wind flags lie, the mirage never lies.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[lone ringer]

As a general rule if I do not know the person I am spotting for I would limit my help to showing him/her where he hit or missed on the plotting board without talking. Then as we get to know each other he/her might start asking for more information regarding mirage, wind changes, etc. and only then would I volunteer my guesstimates to the shooter.