.30-30 Loading Crash Course

[PaulG]

Howdy all. I just joined this forum. I'm not new to silhouette, having started in 1976 with high power, later smallbore, and later still BPCR. Just recently my wife and I decided to move to Phoenix for the winter, in large part so I can shoot. I'm sure not getting any younger. I just acquired a Marlin .30-30 (Ballard), and need a crash course in loading for silhouette. Because of the holiday and planning the move, I don't have time to do my usual R&D for this rifle, so I'd very much appreciate some guidance on how to load for silhouette. If there is a good reference source for such info, that would be helpful.

Basic questions include: is there a good all-round jacketed bullet for the .30-30? Is any brand of brass to be preferred? Is it essential to FL size for a .30-30 lever, or can you get away with neck sizing? Eventually I want to cast bullets, but not this season, as I won't have my casting gear with me for the winter.

Thanks for the help.

Paul

[Tlee]

Paul -

I use either R-P or Winchester brass, neck sized only (after it's been fired once full length sized in that particular gun). I've used nothing but Winchester Large Rifle Standard primers, only because that's all I could get when I started loading 30-30. I wouldn't hesitate to try CCI standard large rifle primers.

The 125gr Sierra #2020 HP with 31gr of Varget works great for Chickens, Pigs, and Turkeys. For Rams, I use either the 150gr Winchester 30-30 Soft Point, or if they're harder set I'll use the 170gr Speer #2041 HotCor FlatPoint with the same 31gr of Varget. Both run 2000+/- FPS. I've used up to 33.5gr of Varget to achieve 2150FPS averages, but I get better groups with the 31gr load, regardless of the projectile (typically 1" groups at 100m). I've tried several powders, but Varget has very mild recoil and seems to be the most consistent.

my .02,

-Tim

[jnyork]

I have used both Reminton and Winchester brass, no difference that I can tell. I neck size only and have never had a problem. My favorite powder is 3031, 30 grains with the 125 Sierra. I have shot my way into AAA class with these loads and have never seen any need to go further. I can only recall losing 1 or 2 rams in the last 10 years or so, dont see any need to use heavier bullets for the rams. Last year I shot a ram in the kneecap, didnt budge him at all. Next shooter behind me shot him in the exact same spot with a 350 grainer out of his 45-70, didnt budge him either .

Next year come to Yuma, we shoot silhouette 3 days a week or more all winter long.

[lone ringer]

Paul G, since you are asking for advice I am going to tell you how I do it so hopefully you can pick up some pointers. I full size my cases since I have several 30-30 rifles and use the ammo I load on all of them. Basically 32 of Varget will give you an accurate load with any weight bullet, I have used 110 round nose carbine bullets for chickens and pigs just because I have a lot of them. If you want to have only one load I recommend you use 33-34 gr of Varget with a 150 gr bullet. You can also have two loads and do like I have done for a long time and load 34 gr of Varget and use 110-125 for the first two distances and 150 for the other two. A third option would be loading 32 gr of Varget and 125-150 for the first three distances and 170 for the rams.

Now for the reloading part, at the beginning I had trouble when seating the bullets and now and then I would have several pieces of brass with collapsed necks when trying to seat my bullets (the brass is thinner compared to other calibers). So now I clean my brass then I lubricate and full size it, after that I remove the lubricant and using a Lyman 30 ca M die I run the brass through it and seat the primers (I use a Dillon 550 for all my loading) and that is my first operation, the second stage is loading the powder, the third one is seating the bullets and the fourth one is crimping the brass to the bullet using a Lee Crimping die. One last thing is I like Winchester brass but Remington and Federal are also good brands. I have bought it brand new and also once fired brass and never had any problems with it. Hope to see you in Phoenix in February for their State Championships if you are still there. There is a good group of shooters in the area and they shoot often you will probably enjoy your stay there. Let me know if you have other questions that I may be able to answer for you.

[PaulG]

Thanks a lot, gents. That's exactly what I needed to know. It'll help me get a jump on things. I have had good luck with Varget in other calibers, and I'll try other powders as well.

Lone Ringer, what you said about neck tension makes sense. I deal with that all the time with .40 and .45 BPCR loading, even to the point of making my own expander plugs in the exact diameters I need to achieve the desired tension.

Is crimping the standard procedure for these lever guns? Do all of you do it?

Thanks again.

I will be in Phoenix for the February championship. I have never shot that specific discipline, but I have done BPCR gong shooting at 700 - 1000 yards, as well as BPCR silhouette, so I should be able to adapt to that course of fire, and I'll have an opportunity to practice at Ben Avery.

Tim, that's a great avatar. I might have to steal it! Or is that "steel" it?

Paul

[Tlee]

Paul -

I have to concur with most of the above. I also use the Lyman M-die and then a Lee factory crimp die as well.
I've also tried Speer's (#1835) 110gr "Varminter" Flat Nosed HP bullets (not to be confused with the Sierra Varminter, which is a spitzer style HP) with the same 31g of Varget, and while they were MOA accurate, the CLA pigs would fall a bit slowly and i did loose a couple with them so I opted for the 125s. I do still use the 110s occasionally on chickens. I've even used some of the half jacketed 100g lead "plinkers", but they seem to only work well at 1600fps and slower (I use 9gr of TrailBoss with them). A 2-3 MOA group is about the best I've seen with the plinkers, so they're another "chickens only" load for me.

While I feel the 125s might take down half/light set rams at some locations, my experience at one of the ranges where I shoot is even the 150s will leave one standing if the wind is to the back side of the target. 170s are a must at that location at those times. I used 150s at Raton for the nationals this year on rams and they all fell, albeit a couple center hits did fall slower than my son's ram hits (he used 170s on rams).

Feel free to snag the avatar... I'm had it for years and others have also used it. Works great on forums where animated GIFs are allowed.

Hope to see you at Raton next year,

-Tim

[Tlee]

Also some good load advice in this thread... It's the one I started with when loading for 30-30:
http://www.steelchickens.com/forums/vie ... f=7&t=5172

- Tim

[PaulG]

Has anybody had experience with the Berry 150 gr. round shoulder plated bullet in the .30-30? They are designed as a kind of substitute for all-lead lubed bullets at lead bullet velocities.

How about other commercially produced lubed lead bullets in the .30-30?

Paul

[boats]

All good advice will add a few more points & opinion.

Crimp is not a bad idea in tubular magazines and I think it gives a more consistent burn with lighter bullets. Problem is seater dies that crimp depend on all cartridges having the same overall length to work properly. If just one case is too long it's going to bulge the neck and put most lever actions out of business. You can trim all the same and still have one off the ground from somebody else get into your empty brass bucket. During a match bulged neck is a real problem. As long as they are close it's much easier to seat without crimping and run them though a lee factory crimp collet die. It does not care how long the case is.

Most die sets the expander die does not suit me and run my 30/30's 32/20's & 38/40's through a Lyman M die to set the neck size and flare. Think it gives me more consistent neck pull.

Plain base Lead is all I shoot in single shots and my Pistol Caliber guns, Used to shoot a lot of it gas checked in bolt action 30's at about 1600 fps. Now I use the 30/30 for CLA so few rounds a year it's not worth the effort to develop a good lead Ram load. Molds sizers etc. CPT's don't take a lot to knock over and no doubt lead bullets are a good option. Rams lead bullets are pushing the envelope. Then need to be up around 1900 fps to knock rams over at 200. Never had any luck switching off lead and jacketed bullets same barrel with out extensive cleaning. So I use 170 jacketed for Rams 125 gr jacketed varmint bullets for CPT Lead can work just takes some trouble working up a load.

I shoot the Berry's in 2 45 ACP revolvers they work fine but are loaded same methods and have the same velocity as unplated lead. No increased performance just cleaner

Boats

[fwt1712]

I've just started using the 30-30 too (well load testing for the 'boss', I have got a 45-70 but no projies at the moment) and am running pretty mild loads using commercial cast bullets at this stage (I'm acquiring casting gear and old wheel weights at the moment but haven't done a first cast yet).

I am using redding sizing dies and seater and plan to neck size only. I am also using the lyman M die and find it to work very well (I've got RCBS cowboy dies in 32-20 and 45-70 and I feel the M die is a bit more positive in its action, although the RCBS dies do the job too). I also use a LEE fcd for the 32-20 but use the redding seater crimp for the stronger 30-30 cases(the 32-20s are pretty light and the LEE fcd crimps by squeezing the case and not by forcing a crimp end on - which can crumple the thin 32-20 cases).

CPT use 8.5gn x Trail Boss with a 165 gn bevel base commercial cast (Hawkesbury) approx. 1100fps in ADI loading manual.
R use 17gn x AR2207 (H4198 equivalent) approx. 1600fps in manual.

Shot yesterday and everything hit went down - once I got settings, after starting with a 50m zero only (9 chooks, 10 pigs, 6 turks (1+5 needed some sight adjustment, missed first 4) and 5 rams (2 + 3, also fiddling with settings).

So from what I can see this could be a pretty effective, yet mild and easy on brass and shooter load set up.

regards,
Nigel.

[boats]

Your on the right track.

One thing to watch is Wheel weights. Since so many car's have alloy wheels and lead is fairly expensive new weights don't have a lot of lead in them. Old manuals that recommended WW were figuring on good lead. Even the Chinese won't buy scrap wheel weights today

Most of the guys I shoot with use pre alloyed lead, have been buying from RotoMetals lately. Just paid about 2 dollars a pound delivered. Figure those 45/70 bullets at about 20 to the pound commercial pre mix lead is 10 cents a bullet. You can use scrap but most is not free. dollar a pound for the lead well over 5 for the tin and my gas bottle took 20 bucks to fill last time. Takes a lot of time to make up your own alloy you have to flux and clean scrap before you mix in the tin. What the bullet is made if is critical to success.

Lots of lube recipes out there too. I suggest starting with SPG bullet lube, it works well many good single shot shooters use it. want to start experimenting with lubes do it after you get a good working load. SPG works well in a lube sizer

Boats

[PaulG]

Well, I just hauled a bunch of my shooting junk from Iowa to Phoenix where I will be spending three months. I have no immediate plans to load lead bullets in my .30-30, although I might try it at some time in the future. I have been shooting BPCRs for several years, casting my own bullets. Like you, Boats, I have tried scrap lead and eventually decided that the savings aren't worth the hassle with unknown content, zinc contamination, varying hardness, etc., etc. Once I use up all my odd lots, I am going to pay the price and stick with the purest lead and tin I can get.

For lubes I have tried several commercial lubes as well as home brewed. Lately I have been using DGL, and have also tried a recommended blend of SPG, DGL, and Lubegard.