is .356 legal for CLA?

Centerfires, rimfires, pistol cartridges and everything in between.
plzbry
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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by plzbry » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:33 pm

I believe the answer was not allowed.

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by No1_49er » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:23 pm

This topic has been "discussed" at some length in the past, But I don't believe it has been resolved, definitively.
Much has been said about rimmed/semi-rimmed, and the semantics of the terms.
Initial discussions about the 308Marlin Exp eventuated in an undated communication from Aaron Farmer who said: -

"In regards to .308 Marlin XS round:
After further discussion we have realized that this is a larger issue than just a minor clarification on the word 'Rimmed'. There will need to be a further look into this round and others to determine what will be allowed and what will not. This issue will be brought up to the Silhouette committee as a topic for discussion.
At this time the aforementioned round in question will not be allowed at the 2018 Silhouette Nationals. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope to come up with a solution during this years' committee meeting."

As has been pointed out, if the 444 Marlin is a legal case, and 356 is formed from the 444, how can one be legal and the other not?
This, of course opens the proverbial 'Pandora's Box'. 307 Win, 308 M Exp, etc., etc.

Referring to Farmers communication, I don't believe a final determination has been made, or if it has, how and when was it disseminated because it sure seems that a lot (most?) of us don't yet know.

Some here may not like to see anything other than "traditional" cartridges being used; if that is so then the committee determination might have to be worded in such a way that excludes semi-rimmed, whatever they might be.
Of course, if rules are open to mis/interpretation, we invite endless discourse on the semantics. I doubt that the ISSF ever has such issues.

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by 1894User » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:56 pm

That neither the 308 or the 338 Marlin Express can be used at Nationals. There was to be further discussion from the NRA rules committee, but I have not been informed of any decision other than I can not use the two rifles I purchased for the sport. I have recently picked up a 30-30 Winchester Buffalo Bill Commemorative (for $500 bucks) and will modify it for the sport.

On a personal level I do not see any advantage to 308 ME to 30-30 but you would think I had committed blasphemy for suggesting such a thing. I will say that many in the community offered to lend me rifles and loads if I wanted to shoot at Nationals. As shocked as I was about the negative reaction I was reassured by others who only wanted to help. This is a great community of shooters. I am saddened that there is a restriction based on calibre for rifles that are tube fed and require flat nosed or round nosed bullets. How many shooters who showed up to a match with dads or granddads 307 Winchester 1894 and was told "That ain't legal here." and they just drove away never to return. How much has the rule cost the community, and what does it protect. My 30-30 will easily shoot 125gr in 1 MOA (still working on a 150 and 170gr loads.)

Bottom line I personally support you being able to use your 356 Win, but NRA told me no, in no uncertain terms. The NRA letter is attached in blog. Look up 308 Marlin Express CPT Loads.

Best wishes. And I still hate them chickens.

JW

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by cedestech » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:13 pm

1894User wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:56 pm
That neither the 308 or the 338 Marlin Express can be used at Nationals. There was to be further discussion from the NRA rules committee, but I have not been informed of any decision other than I can not use the two rifles I purchased for the sport. I have recently picked up a 30-30 Winchester Buffalo Bill Commemorative (for $500 bucks) and will modify it for the sport.

On a personal level I do not see any advantage to 308 ME to 30-30 but you would think I had committed blasphemy for suggesting such a thing. I will say that many in the community offered to lend me rifles and loads if I wanted to shoot at Nationals. As shocked as I was about the negative reaction I was reassured by others who only wanted to help. This is a great community of shooters. I am saddened that there is a restriction based on calibre for rifles that are tube fed and require flat nosed or round nosed bullets. How many shooters who showed up to a match with dads or granddads 307 Winchester 1894 and was told "That ain't legal here." and they just drove away never to return. How much has the rule cost the community, and what does it protect. My 30-30 will easily shoot 125gr in 1 MOA (still working on a 150 and 170gr loads.)

Bottom line I personally support you being able to use your 356 Win, but NRA told me no, in no uncertain terms. The NRA letter is attached in blog. Look up 308 Marlin Express CPT Loads.

Best wishes. And I still hate them chickens.

JW
I'm sorry you purchased equipment not realizing it would probably be considered not within the rules. Truly I am.

Your own statement shows that you should be completely happy with what you have though. The 94 you can get a reasonable trigger, if you like the heavy gun it takes alot of the snap out of the 30-30 and all I ever expect out of my CLA guns is 2MOA so you are well ahead of the game. We have all (or most) made purchases that we later regret or are just annoyed over. It's life. Shoot some steel. :)
Emmett Dibble, Rosenberg Texas. All hail Jason, writer of novellas and destroyer of small pieces of paper!!!

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by No1_49er » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:18 pm

Based in an undated letter emanating from the hand of Aaron Farmer stating that for the 2018 Nationals the 308MExp was excluded because of the need to more closely define cartridge types (rimmed, semi-rimmed etc.) I sent an email to NRA, for the attention of A. Farmer on Feb 10th. I have not yet received a reply to the query which related to the, (as yet ?), unresolved matter that was to be discussed at a future meeting. His letter stated: -

" In regards to .308 Marlin XS round:
After further discussion we have realized that this is a larger issue than just a minor clarification on the word 'Rimmed'. There will need to be a further look into this round and others to determine what will be allowed and what will not. This issue will be brought up to the Silhouette committee as a topic for discussion.
At this time the aforementioned round in question will not be allowed at the 2018 Silhouette Nationals. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope to come up with a solution during this years' committee meeting".

Note that this was probably raised as far back as 2017 because the exclusion applied to the 2018 Nat's.
Anybody heard anything since?
Attachments
Aaran Farmer letter.PNG
Aaran Farmer letter.PNG (106.51 KiB) Viewed 498 times

1894User
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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by 1894User » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:26 pm

I am not unhappy with the rifles in 308 or 338 ME. The 308 is a fine rifle more than capable of the task for which it is designed. Be a working persons hunting rifle which is what I think this sport represents. These are the type of rifles my great grandfather and grand father took hunting to put meat on the table for the winter. Think it silly that we are arguing over 0.01 inches or less additional diameter of the rim over the body as making any practical difference. These rifles are and were accurate enough for woods hunting and fast handling to get a quick second shot. Flat nosed bullets required by tubular mag. restricts distance and adds to the less than flat trajectory. Power is not the issue 348 and 405 are both legal. Flatter trajectory is not the issue 25-35 is legal. Accuracy is not an issue as the dominant rounds are more than adequate. Just do not see the reason to limit our community and the growth of the sport based 0.01 inches. Look at it from the direction of they relax or eliminate the rule. No real change to the sport other that the potential for more shooters (granted few as most of these cartridges are not popular and most are no longer have rifles being made for them.) Keeping the rule in place just adds one more barrier to people participating.

At this point is does not make any difference to me, I have my legal rifle and will compete. Sad that it has taken an extra year to do it. Anyone interested in some not so common Marlin MXLRs?

JW

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by cedestech » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:49 am

Again, sorry you purchased a rifle you can't use. I like alot of people have a safe full of them.... it's OK. At least it's not purses or shoes.... =))
Emmett Dibble, Rosenberg Texas. All hail Jason, writer of novellas and destroyer of small pieces of paper!!!

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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by Another Dang 9 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:40 am

cedestech wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:49 am
it's OK. At least it's not purses or shoes.... =))
Emmett you say that like it's a bad thing...
Its a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milk bone underwear.
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Re: is .356 legal for CLA?

Post by No1_49er » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:07 pm

From another thread.
lijeboy wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:18 pm
psteiger wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:13 pm
I don't think Mr. Farmer writes or interperts the rules. I wouldn't feel comfortable until I get word from the Silhouette committee. Those are the people who will make the decision.

That's a valid suggestion. Present it to the Silhouette Committee at the end of the year for a definitive ruling.
But isn't that what Mr. Farmer was saying in his (presumably) 2017 letter?
Did it happen? Was a determination made as to what complies? What was the outcome? Who was advised?
Because, there has not been an addendum/rule change posted, nor has any change been made to the May 2018 Rule Book

Mr. Farmers letter says that the 308 Marlin Express will not be allowed at the 2018 Nationals.
2018 has been and gone. No determination appears to have been made. The exclusion was for 2018.
It's now 2019. Go and shoot it. Else, let that committee make that determination. NOW. Semantics/pedantic - YMMV.

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