In the trigger in use on the 1700/10/12 models, there are actually several variants of the cam (or that part which is the go-between that makes contact between the trigger staff and the sear bar at release).

The elevation of the cam nose -- or the distance from the pivot point that it contacts the sear bar -- determines the mechanical advantage present at release. In the 2 stage version, this determines the balance between the stages.
IOW, the lower the cam nose the more force is required on the second stage to effect release. If, OTOH, you use the older, light release cam designed for the pure 'target' models -- which has a much higher 'nose' or point of contact -- then you have to rely on spring pressure to bring the trigger to the 2 lbs required for hunter...and that puts most of the weight on the first stage.

You can re-balance these triggers in either direction (more weight on the first or more weight on the second stage) by judicious interchanges of the cams or by careful stoning of the cam nose. They're just never going to be as easily set up, or have the range of balance adjustment, found in the more sophisticated units like the 5018/20/22 series. (The 50 series triggers have screws for every adjustment. Adjusting these older triggers sometimes requires a kettle, a small fire, a dark room, eyes of bats and ears of newts and some really esoteric incantations!) lol

What I fail to understand is why Anschutz doesn't use the 5022 trigger on all their high-dollar sporters. Given that the trigger is the heart of the shot, it has always seemed to me that simple pride of product would override minor monetary considerations at Anschutz and that they would want to put their best trigger on what they bill as the best smallbore sporter in production. Since we're already paying nearly $2K for these rifles, I would certainly pay an added (reasonable) premium for the better trigger...and I'd guess that most others would also. On a $500.00 rifle in today's world I can understand some scrimping. On one that costs as much as a 17 series -- and which is certainly bought exclusively by people willing to pay for (and expecting) the best and not by those looking for bargains -- IMO it's pretty unreasonable to use less-than-top-of-the-line components.

I'm curious.. who's Hi-Power off the shelf rifles have 2 stage triggers ?

CZ are set triggers, not 2 stage, afik...have had 3 of them

timbertoes wrote:I'm curious.. who's Hi-Power off the shelf rifles have 2 stage triggers ?

CZ are set triggers, not 2 stage, afik...have had 3 of them

The Bushmaster DCM Competition rifle has a two stage trigger. There are others, but I'd have to search for them. They don't turn up on the Remington 700's, but they are pretty common on the AR platforms many former military prefer these days, but I don't know if that means current military M4's have two stage triggers, and I fired the M16 so infrequently during my time in the service that I don't remember.

Set triggers are illegal for silhouette, which may seem odd since the two stage trigger is legal.

Could you direct us to the specific rule that proscribes set triggers?

ter
In the 1700-10-12 rifles, yes there is a cam that is an integral part of the "trigger lever" ( where you put your finger to pull it ) it is not adjustable, unless you take the whole lever out and start grinding or polishing on it. The Anchutz factory actually grinds off this small cam for the single stage triggers. Actually I learned all this , and how to work, and convert the triggers from Neal Stepp.
Now the good news is, that the new 1712 with the 54.18 bolt will required a 2 minutes modification of the action for it to be able to install the fancy 5018 trigger ( same as the one in the 54.18 rifles ) I already done two of them and they work great.
Evelio.

nomad wrote:Could you direct us to the specific rule that proscribes set triggers?

Rule 3.1.c under High Power specifically addresses it and the rule subsequently applies to Smallbore Silhouette. (Dang I feel like a jerk quoting the rule book...)

AFAIK that version of the rule was long ago changed.
If you go here you will find different wording:

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -r-w03.pdf

nomad wrote:AFAIK that version of the rule was long ago changed.
If you go here you will find different wording:

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -r-w03.pdf

Sorry, but I don't see any changes:

3.16 Release Triggers - Triggers which function on release are prohibited.

3.1 (c) Any trigger not subject to accidental discharge. Triggers which function on release are not permitted. In the event of accidental discharge, the Range Officer shall require trigger adjustment or replacement of the rifle.

Just to make sure everyone is using the same terminology here, let's get a couple terms straight. A set trigger is not the same as a release trigger. A set trigger is legal for standard class, but not for hunter. A set trigger is a heavier trigger that can be "set" so that it releases with very little pressure. Since the trigger can be set and not require a total of 2lbs of pressure on the trigger to fire, it doesn't meet hunter class rules. There are double set triggers where one trigger is pulled to set the other, such as on my Thompson Center Hawken muzzleloader. There are also single set triggers where there is only one trigger and it can be pushed forward to set it. An example of this is the trigger that comes on the CZ 453 and many of the CZ centerfire rifles. A single set trigger can usually be adjusted so that it can't be set and is therefore legal for hunter class also if the non-set trigger pull is at least two pounds. A release trigger is a trigger that fires when enough pressure to meet a threshold is applied and then released. Totally different design.

A two-stage trigger is one that has one stage with travel (creep) and then a second stage (usually without creep) that takes more pressure to fire. The normal method of using the two-stage trigger is pulling through the first stage when preparing to fire and settling against the second stage, sustaining the pressure that was required to move through the first stage's travel so that only enough more pressure to overcome the second stage's resistance is required to fire the shot. If the total pressure required on the two-stage trigger to travel through the first stage and then break the second stage is 2lbs or more, then the trigger is legal for hunter class. Some common examples of rifles that come with two-stage triggers have already been mentioned. One additional are most Savage rifles now, as the Accutrigger is a two-stage trigger although is a different design since it uses two separate external trigger blades instead of internal cams and such.

Jason,
Good explanation and you're correct...although there are so many '2 stage' triggers out there that are really just fakes (IOW single stage triggers with a false first stage) that it gets really blurred. The Steyr and the Savage are examples.

I posted only because there was incorrect information being disseminated to newbies. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the problem wasn't so much what wasn't known as it was how much of what was 'known' that was wrong.

I'm going back to lurking.

Jason wrote:Just to make sure everyone is using the same terminology here, let's get a couple terms straight. A set trigger is not the same as a release trigger. A set trigger is legal for standard class, but not for hunter. A set trigger is a heavier trigger that can be "set" so that it releases with very little pressure. Since the trigger can be set and not require a total of 2lbs of pressure on the trigger to fire, it doesn't meet hunter class rules. There are double set triggers where one trigger is pulled to set the other, such as on my Thompson Center Hawken muzzleloader. There are also single set triggers where there is only one trigger and it can be pushed forward to set it. An example of this is the trigger that comes on the CZ 453 and many of the CZ centerfire rifles. A single set trigger can usually be adjusted so that it can't be set and is therefore legal for hunter class also if the non-set trigger pull is at least two pounds. A release trigger is a trigger that fires when enough pressure to meet a threshold is applied and then released. Totally different design.

A two-stage trigger is one that has one stage with travel (creep) and then a second stage (usually without creep) that takes more pressure to fire. The normal method of using the two-stage trigger is pulling through the first stage when preparing to fire and settling against the second stage, sustaining the pressure that was required to move through the first stage's travel so that only enough more pressure to overcome the second stage's resistance is required to fire the shot. If the total pressure required on the two-stage trigger to travel through the first stage and then break the second stage is 2lbs or more, then the trigger is legal for hunter class. Some common examples of rifles that come with two-stage triggers have already been mentioned. One additional are most Savage rifles now, as the Accutrigger is a two-stage trigger although is a different design since it uses two separate external trigger blades instead of internal cams and such.

I don't think the Savage AccuTrigger qualifies as a two stage trigger. The blade that is in the middle of the trigger is simply a safety device. The pressure it requires to depress the "blade" is much less (I would imagine that it is in the single digit ounces) than the pressure it takes to release the sear. It is just a single stage trigger with a built in safety device. It is much like the trigger on a Glock handgun.

I've always thought a two stage trigger was just a fancy trigger with a lot of creep...

Evelio Mc Donald wrote:............Now the good news is, that the new 1712 with the 54.18 bolt will required a 2 minutes modification of the action for it to be able to install the fancy 5018 trigger ( same as the one in the 54.18 rifles ) I already done two of them and they work great.
Evelio.

Now you went and did it Evelio... saying stuff like this only fuels the fire and supports our addiction. Hmmm now how can I convince the wife I need 2 of the new style 1700's and 5018 triggers and send them off to Evelio without her finding out I'm sensing trouble here....

Bob, anymore, my wife politely pretends not to notice...

Jason, for what its worth, your explinations were very good.