newbie wash outs

[Bob259]

We're struggling here in NY as well. Match attendence was down last year at our club we usually only had 3 shooters, including myself and we lowered the price to $2.00 a match. I agree with at what point do you say it's not worth it to hold them as it certainly is not paying for itself, we had more expense in grass and weed killer for the berms then we took n in entry fees for the year. At the other club they were doing better, about 12 shooters on average, but that was down from the years before, including their lever gun matches.

Today there are so many 'other' activities and the fact that the economy tanked has a lot of people are just trying to keep their heads above water with food and gas prices going up, not to mention ammo and components, I think it makes it harder to get dedicated shooters

[jneihouse]

We've experienced the opposite here at OFGC at Fort Smith, Arkansas....We wer up in match attendance and did not have but one match that we had only a handful of shooters (co-incided with the opening of modern rifle deer season), the rest were well attended. Attendance has been good for the past several years, good enough that the club approved and is now near completion of a major renovation/addition to the sillhouete range. Covered and paved firing line was extended to double the size and we will now have 5 banks of 10 of each animal for the NRA approved/registered matches and 2 banks of 10 of each animal for the 1/2 scale cowboy lever/hunter pistol guys. The club has also voted to restrict the 100 meter range to rimfire only, with the exception of the above mentioned hunter pistol/cowboy lever action guns. Big move for us, escpecially since the competitive side of the club is dominated by shotgun and run and gun pistol sports.

It is hard to keep new shooters, and we don't keep nearly every one that comes out to shoot. We do go out of the way to make our matches "newbie friendly" while maintaining the integrity of the sport. These things go a long way in attracting and keeping new shooters. These are the things we do that I believe help.

1. We run a "Club Match" concurrent with our 1/5 scale match. The Club Match is shot at the same time as the 1/5 scale match and with the same range commands. Only difference is the size of the animals. For the Club Match we use the 1/2 scale cowboy lever gun/hunter pistol targets. We give trophies, have came up with some "unofficial" in-a-row pins and present these at the end of the match just like we do the NRA side. Of course the score doesn't go in the NRA book, it is just a "fun" match. But it gives new shooters an arena in whcih to compete and a place where equipment selection is not nearly as critical as the official match. A lot of folks shoot this a while and get good, learn a bit about equipment and move to the NRA side. We have several father/son/daughter/mother groups that shoot this and they have a hoot.

2. We are hands on an firm on safety but do not bully anyone. Beginning of each match day I give the safety lecture and go over the course of fire for the new shooters. It's plain that I/we expect safety to be job one for everyone. During the match I walk the line and reinforce firearm safety. Most folks that break a safety rule do so out of inexperience. I treat it as such. I move close enough to let them know that I'm not "calling them out" and re-instruct, reinforce, and repeat as necessary. If the situation warrants more, I will handle it accordingly.

3. We have an informal practice session at least once a week that is open to anyone who wants to come out and shoot with us. We set the targets, hang some 1/2 scale swingers and shoot for 2 to 3 hours on a weekday evening or a Sunday afternoon. One of our members maintains a "lets go shoot" emaill mailing list of anyone who is interested and sends them out in advance, letting folks know when we are going out to play. During this time we try their guns, let them try ours if they like, work with them if they want us to and have a good time. We don't try to take them from B to Master in one day, we don't belittle their equipment and we don't try to impress them with all the wonderful things we know that they don't If they ask we help, if not we let them have fun. Every group will have some person or persons that can be a jerk at times (it may be me, who knows lol) and you should recognize that. Recognize that and work around it.

4. I try to meet and greet each new shooter that comes out to shoot. I introduce myself and let them know that they are welcome and I would like to help make their time they choose to spend with us enjoyable. If there is anything I can do to help that along please feel free to ask.

As ajj said this is a hard sport and that is why new shooters don't stick.This is true Others have mentioned ego and that too plays a role. Some have mentioned the equipment race as being an issue. This too, is part of the problem. However we as match directors and hard core silhouette shooters have to reealize that while these are problems they are ones that can be addressed in a positive manner and in doing so we can help keep the new shooter in the fold and prevent our sport from withering on the vine and becoming one of those things that they look back on fondly instead of ahead to in anticipation. Just me 2 cents worth.

Kitty

[silhouette13]

that is a great post Kitty, worth more than 2 cents.

all 4 of our local clubs have the "club " rifle thing going. we find that people will stick with it instead of making the jump to 1/5th scale cause they cant stand to have the scores drop. we also have pins, they are black with a 1 or 5 on them. we have novice and expert club divisions, you are a novice until you shoot 30 3 times. we start out with smallbore targets for novice then up to pistol cartridge targets for expert.we do keep track with using an unused page in the book.

we also do not have any smallbore only matches, so you could be standing next to a guy shooting a 22hornet contender while tring to shoot 1/5th. we generally have 20+ turn out with most guys shooting at leat 2 rounds in a mariad of combinations, alot are possible cause our smallest club has 1 pistol cartridge bank then a small bore(1/5) and then a hsb hunters pistol, so the pistol targets coule have a CB shooter on them at the moment or a pistol shooter.

there are a few who shoot all the classes, we just keep them running all day

this is great for getting people involved.

[Dee]

I think it has alot to due with the difficulty as well. We all know how most every hunter is a crack shot marksman when they are at the hunting lease talking trash about the time they headshot a squirrel at 100 yards while it was running etc. These guys do not even want to come out and try to hit a little target sitting perfectly still at known distances because they feel like they will be embarrassed. I know lots of guys that hunt and I can't get them to even give silhouette a try. When you tell them it is basically like shooting golf balls at 44 yards and beer cans laid over at 110 yards all offhand you can just see the look on their faces and it is usually followed by ?OFFHAND?

You have to be looking for a personal challenge to enjoy silhouette IMO. It sure seems like it should be alot easier doesn't it?

[Jerry G]

At the club near Bozeman, MT they let the new JRs shoot at the pistol targets and it isn't too long they want to shoot at the regulation targets. That's when they are hooked. There are many very good JR shooters that come out of that club, some masters before they get out of high school.

[ppkny]

I tried a few things at our club when I ran the matches. We had the regular NRA group of people shooting the standard way and I let newbies shoot from the bench for the first couple of matches just to get some confidence that there gun could actualy hit where they aimed. It wasn't long before they wanted to try the real thing. Also let the newbies shoot as many shots as they want within the 2 1/2 minuet time period.
ppkny

[trkyroost]

lots of great ideas some of which i think would help keep my 11 year old son more interested till he improves he did not not catch the fever like i did after the first couple of matches

[Jason]

To pick up on an idea already mentioned, I let my 10-year-old daughter shoot the targets off the bench and compete with my offhand score. It's pretty competitive and she gets a kick out of it.

[atomicbrh]

After reading the previous two posts about keeping the kids interested I finally remembered what really happened with my son 10 years ago. The first shooting sport he tried at age 9 was Smallbore Prone with a Remington 540XR JR., front glove, sling, handstop, one sweatshirt and a nice stiff NRA legal Creedmore coat in 90+ degree heat with high Mississippi humidity. After he got off the mat the first time he said he had enough of that and from then on it has been standing Silhouette. According to my son Silhouette did not torture him like NRA prone did. It was not just the heat but the sling pressure and raw elbows he did not like. Maybe borrowing some prone stuff first will convince the kids how comfortable and nice Silhouette really is. ( I am not bashing Smallbore Prone. I am still drawn to it every so often myself.)

Bobby R. Huddleston

[GTKF]

Like many here I try to encourage new shooters and am frustrated by the loss of new shooters. I'm convinced it's the realization that shooting well takes work and most are not willing to put the effort in.

We run both monthly NRA SB matches and club only SB matches as well as club only Lever Action matches. I try to encourage new shooters to "practice" on the 1/2 scale animals by allowing the use of any rifle/sight in a separate class, during the Lever Action matches. Only restriction is correct ammunition

[Jeaux]

This is a great topic and there are several posts here that we should take something from to use in all of our local matches. Our sport starts at the local level. New shooters, if they are to get into silhouette to stay, pretty much all get their start at the local club match level and this is where we have to improve or adapt what we are doing if we are going to get this sport back up to the level that it once was as far as participation goes.

Kitty has put forth and example of a program that is doing something right. I got some ideas from reading his post that I plan to work towards implementing at our monthly matches. I am in the process of getting a smallbore cowboy match going and think that having those larger targets at the same distances for either cowboy shooters or any new shooter to shoot on could be something that may help let new shooters gain some confidence and have fun on until they feel ready to step up to the challenge of the 1/5 scale targets.

If we can get the average Joe out to the range with that old .22 he has had since he was a teenager and ole Joe can knock down some 1/2 scale targets with it and have a positive experience, we have a good chance of ole Joe coming back next month. A newbies first experience depends a lot on the people he or she meets on their first trip to a match. It is important that not only the match director, but also all the old hands at the match realize that these newbies are potentially the future of our sport, and do what they can to be as respectful and considerate with new shooters as possible in an effort to make that persons first experience one that they would like to do again.

This sport is not going to be for everyone. It is a very challenging sport and that fact is what will either attract or turn off new shooters. I used to compete at high levels in airgun field targets matches in the south for a couple of years before I shot my first silhouette match. Field target is a sport where you can "get good" rather quickly with a little practice and the right equipment. Equipment plays a very big role in that equation though. I have seen absolute novices progress to the upper ranks in one year or two, but in most cases they had invested at least $5K in a top of the line air rifle and the supporting equipment to go along with it. It is a different game than silhouette, but it is one that the average shooter can get to where they can hit 75% plus of the targets and better very quickly with the right equipment. Many of the targets in a field target match are not much of a challenge and novices can hit them with relatively little skill, but ALL targets in silhouette are challenging and will make a fool out of you if you don't do what you are supposed to do with every shot. They now have a few offhand shots in most major field target matches, and the matches are usually won by those guys that learn how to shoot the offhand shots very well. You would choke with laughter if you saw some of the gizmos, slings, jackets and contraptions they put on just to help them shoot the offhand shots. I have one of the newer field target shooters in mind to work on getting into silhouette under the guise of improving his offhand shooting for field target.

Great topic and thanks for all the good replies.

[Mt_Medic31]

To Silhouette,
You have a valid point. and I agree coming from the standpoint of a new shooter. I have only shot this last summer, and got hooked, going to every match I could, driving up to 6 hours. BUT, it was discouraging some of the equipment snobs, and just about every question I asked got met with some version of 'buy the most expensive'. I ended up buying books on my own to tweak my equipment to get the most out of it. Thankfully I'm hardheaded, and know when NOT to value someone else's opinion, so no one will chase me off. I enjoy the game, and plan to continue.

Expense should not keep people from this, but bad experiences will. I played hockey all the way through college, and still do recreationally, it's an expensive sport, but more and more adults pick it up. Even playing in school, when a bunch of us would go to a pick up game at the rink, and newbies would come out (and they were WELCOME too), they were warmly welcomed on the bench, and we didn't hover over them correcting their moves. They got passed to alot, and got as much ice time as they wanted with regards to line changes. 80% of those guys STILL PLAY. So don't tell me that a bad experience from other competitors won't ruin it. I have also played at rinks where the top tier players are complete snobs, and you know what, I quit the top tier league to go play in the intermediate league where the guys still just have fun. Even the beginners that spend most of there ice time on their ass, as long as everyone's laughing and not scolding, they are back the next Tuesday night or whatever.

I ran into this ALOT on this forum when I started shooting. In fact I think it was WORSE on here. An example would be on my thread "definition of hunting stock". That thread had me so frustrated that I quit looking at this site for a month, and didn't go back to that thread for even longer. So now there are just a few people I will email with questions. and if I am going to put a question on this forum, I go over the wording like a Lawyer.

I have taken a few people to shoot, and let them use my guns. All I did was show them the basics, and then let them shoot, it wasn't a lesson. I would spot for their first relay, and that was generally it. 2/3 of those people are now saving for a silhouette gun.

So, back to Silhouette13, I agree with you, and it's nice to see someone with seniority post that one here. Maybe someone will take it more serious. Though I do say, I don't think things will change unfortunately.

[Innocent]

Been at the smallbore game since 1977, didn't make master until the around 2005 in hunter and 2008 in standard. A great friend that is well known once said to me " Smallbore Silhouette is the most difficult sport I have ever shot. It includes all of the possible difficulties of any kind of shooting." Col. Lones Wigger....
Need I say more, other than what has already been suggested, let the new shooters shoot what they brung (up to ammo velocity limits, and I always carry extra ammo for that issue), shoot from the bench, at the larger targets until they need a greater challenge. Many times with juniors, once they obtain a 30 on the pistol size targets from the bench, we make them shoot short animals standing and long from the bench, or anything else that presents a fun challenge without being an ego killer.
In my experience, many start and only about 10% ever make it past a year of playing.

Mary

[RBriscoe]

I have always thought that many don't return because they don't hit as many targets as they think they should and don't want to look bad amoung other shooters. I worked my way into Hunter AAA with a 10-22 so don't tell me the gun isn't good enough. All you have to do is find ammo the gun likes and keep it clean so it functions with 1080 fps ammo.

This.

People don't come back because it's too hard. It's not the kind of challenge the average shooter is looking for. No shame in that, but lots of people are reluctant to say it.

I've told people not to waste money on gear that doesn't work but I tell everybody who asks to get started with what they have, or what they can borrow, and see if the sport appeals. Someone who says he quit because he couldn't afford to shoot didn't really want to shoot very badly.

I strongly agree. Silhouette is one of the most challenging of shooting sports. Some might say it is just plain hard. Not everyone embraces the challenge or wants to commit the time to a sport which can be very humbling.

Everyone I know encourages new shooters to bring anything they have to shoot. If they enjoy the game and want to continue in it they will make much better choices in purchasing whatever equipment they decide upon after having shot some matches and tried some equipment. Anyone who has been around "a while" is committed to the game and frequently simply enjoys playing around with equipment.

Any shooting sport, any endeavor for that matter, has a number of dropouts. It is to be expected. All you can do is provide a friendly welcome and share your experience, if requested.

Rick

[Jeaux]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have gleaned some good ideas from this discussion that I plan to try in an effort to attract some new blood into this sport. We need more guys like Mt_Medic in this game and I think most of us still share his zeal for it. Thanks for the good ideas.