McKean County Rifle Club in Bradford,Pa

Thanks Mike.

Do you guys have a website so we can see some pictures of your facility? If not can you describe what you've got in the way of targets and general infrastructure that could support a match the size of the National Championship? How many banks of CLA, PCCLA & SBCLA targets? Dining facilities either on site or nearby. Hotels/Motels/B&B's within what kind of range? Distance to nearest airport?

Most of us West of the Mississippi obviously haven't shot at Bradford PA so we have no idea what's there and it's very tough to think of recommending a change of venue from a known commodity to a complete unknown.

Thanks for any info you can provide,

Craig

Craig, we do not have a website at this time. There are several hotels in Bradford,Pa as well as camp grounds within 15 min of the range. If we shoot 5 targets at a time then reset we can put 32 shooters on the line per relay for SB and PC and 24 shooters per relay for CLA. We had 124 shooters for a hunters pistol nationals in the past and all ran smooth. We will also have plenty of target setters,score keepers,and line officers to make this match run very smooth. We are hoping that this match can be ran in conjuction with the smallbore and high power nations that will be back in Ridgway,Pa in 2015. McKean County Rifle Club is 45 min from Ridgway,Pa. It has been brought up several times at competitor meetings to run the nationals in conjuction with each other so shooters dont have to spend so much money traveling but because of schudleing in Raton,NM it can never be done. We can do it here in Pa. We have already got some support on the change in venue from shooters in the west. I think most of us shooters agree it is time for a change. Thanks and i hope this helps Mike Haynes

Craig,hotels and dining in Bradford are no farther than Whittington to Raton or less.Special eats are no farther than Cimmaron.Airport,a community regional 15 miles? or so.Lots of good bar & grills,comperable to Ice House and as close.

Jim Luke almost always brings his A game to any match...and he really is a nice guy.

I'd go to NM or PA. I say give the yankees a try.

Dustin

Unfortunately if the Nationals were to go to PA every other year I'd have to miss them every other year. There is no way to fly with 6 rifles, 38 pounds of ammo ( I just weighed what I'm taking to PALA for the Regional next weekend) tools, spare parts, and all the other necessary accoutrements for shooting a National Championship. It would be cost prohibitive to ship those items besides which 4 of the 6 guns are almost irreplaceable. The only real option is to drive which is 2,200+ miles one way. That's probably 4 days each way. 20 years ago an easy 3 days but no longer.

Raton for me is a 1 day drive and I've got everything I need at my fingertips. I pretty much fill my truck. The same can be said for most of the Western shooters. In fact in reviewing the 2013 results it shows that approximately 70% of the shooters came from just the 6 Western states of AZ, CA, NM, TX, CO and NV.

1) I'm not sure if the East coast can replace those 100+ shooters. 2) If they did it appears that Bradford does not have the facilities to handle that many shooters. Raton can put 40 shooters on the line per relay for CLA and it takes 2 days to get in 2 - 40 shot matches. Bradford can put on 24 shooters per relay for CLA. Raton can put 48 shooters per relay for SBCLA & PCCLA. Bradford can put only 32 shooters on the line per relay for SBCLA & PCCLA. That's only 128 shooters for the four relays for both PCCLA and SBCLA. Unless they significantly increase their capacity or anticipate a much smaller turnout the numbers just don't seem to work in their favor. In 2013 at the Nationals there were 148 CLA shooters, 160 PCCLA Shooters and 155 SBCLA shooters.

Let me make it clear that I'm not in love with Raton or the Whittington Center but as far as I can see they have the facilities to deal with the crowds generated by this National Championship and it appears that Bradford doesn't at this time. Am I wrong?

Craig,
While I thoroughly enjoy the facilities at Raton, I have truly found the PA Nationals in SB/HP much better run. Perhaps it is because the matches there are run by silhouette shooters that understand the sport and how to keep it moving, as opposed to volunteers/hired locals who are not shooters of this sport. I can see and understand Tony remarks about a single place for Nationals but for that to fully follow through it needs to be at the same time every year so that people can plan. If you look at any of the big matches that have carried for more than 20 years (and Tony the Southern Nationals still goes on, just a different format) they have a set weekend that it is hosted, such as the Conard Cup being the last full weekend in April
As a person that has to travel over 15 hours to a match either in Raton or PA, it does not really matter to me. To continue to grow this sport we need better leaders of the match and ones that follow the rules, not make them up as they go.

Mary

PhxShooter wrote:
Raton can put 40 shooters on the line per relay for CLA and it takes 2 days to get in 2 - 40 shot matches.

In 2013 at the Nationals there were 148 CLA shooters

Wait, you're telling me that it takes two days to do 80 shots with only 4 relays?? This is in a western State In the middle of the summer on two of the longest days of the year? Is Congress running these matches? Does everyone play a game of Monopoly between relays? In Missouri, we got through three matches of high-power in one day with four relays. That was with the target setters having to go 500 m downrange to reset rams!

That is brutal! How does everyone stay awake? Greg Connor has got to be in the middle of this!

I'm sure Mike and Tammy and the rest of their crew would run a much more efficient match than that. They should have a go at it. need to allow some shooters from other parts of the country a chance to compete at nationals.

Dustin

Innocent wrote: (and Tony the Southern Nationals still goes on, just a different format)

The format of the Southern nationals is still the same. In fact, the entire match is exactly the same as it has always been except we finish earlier on Sunday and David and Jerry are more drunk than normal.

Dustin

PhxShooter wrote:Unfortunately if the Nationals were to go to PA every other year I'd have to miss them every other year. There is no way to fly with 6 rifles, 38 pounds of ammo ( I just weighed what I'm taking to PALA for the Regional next weekend) tools, spare parts, and all the other necessary accoutrements for shooting a National Championship. It would be cost prohibitive to ship those items besides which 4 of the 6 guns are almost irreplaceable. The only real option is to drive which is 2,200+ miles one way. That's probably 4 days each way. 20 years ago an easy 3 days but no longer. (snip).....

Agreed... Only with our family it's a couple more rifles and about 8-10 pounds more ammo, even substituting lighter projectiles for heavier in the PC and CLA loads. Flying it is pretty much out of the question (thru my career I've logged a little over half a million airline miles to both coasts... so I'm familiar with "traveling light") and 2 days of driving is about all my body can handle (like to NM or AZ), at least IF I expect to be able to shoot half decent once I arrive. I cannot imagine how bad I'd shoot after 3-1/2 or 4 days of driving...

Maybe after I retire and can make it a week drive one way to where I can have more recovery, but for now Raton is about perfect for us, ALL things considered (mode of travel, vacation/work/school commitments, etc).

Couple places I haven't seen discussed yet, that appear to me would be feasible and have good airline options (for those that do fly in)... Ben Avery in AZ? Or perhaps Oklahoma City?

my .02,

-Tim

PhxShooter--Your assessment of the PA range at Bradford is spot on in their physical capability to handle the Lever Gun Nationals. Having shot there several times, I can attest that Mike and Tammy run a first class match. But they only had 50 shooters. As much as I would like to shoot the Nationals on their range, its is simply not large enough to handle the shooters, the parking needed, camping, etc. All of you wanting to have the match there need to look at the topo maps of the place and you will see the size of it.

Dustin--You are coming down pretty hard on the Whittington crew in running the match and you weren't there. This year there were 166 registered shooters. Yes, the high power portion takes two days. The match was over every day around 3:00 PM. We had time to go up to the pistol/rimfire range for practice or just relax. The target setters were the best I've seen--they really hustled. I don't know what influence Greg Connor has on running the match--it all depends on the help he has.

Now, when we move up to the smallbore/pistol range, it seems the matches take longer. There are more shoot offs, etc. But, again, the Whittington crew ran the match as smooth as they could have, I think.

I do have a complaint about publishing the final scores. No one knew who won what until the awards were given out. The scoring people can do a lot better in this area. But, all in all, the Nationals this year ran as well as can be expected given the number of shooters involved.

Jim Luke

JohnHenry wrote:
Dustin--You are coming down pretty hard on the Whittington crew in running the match and you weren't there. This year there were 166 registered shooters. Yes, the high power portion takes two days. The match was over every day around 3:00 PM. We had time to go up to the pistol/rimfire range for practice or just relax. The target setters were the best I've seen--they really hustled. I don't know what influence Greg Connor has on running the match--it all depends on the help he has.

Jim, you're right, I was not there so I don't know how it went down. I suppose my perception could be off. It seems like a 4-relay match would not take all day, but I suppose the target setters do have 200 targets to reset. If you say that it's done right then I know it is. (I should probably follow rule #1 that I talked about above! ) I hope to be there next year to see it for myself.

Dustin

Virginia State Association has the same requirement, must be a resident to win the State Championship. When you apply to the NRA for State Championships NRA requires the application to be endorsed by the State Association.

This all from Memory. Correction welcome.

Boats

We ran Hunter Pistol nationals quite successfully back when we "didn't know what we were doing" drawing over a 120 shooters with a format of two 60 shot matches per day. We can handle the shoot it self. The difference from our normal State or Annual Regional match, there won't be any camping on the range itself and we'll be utilizing/opening parking we normally don't use and satellite parking as necessary. Keep in mind MCRC is in the middle of an outdoor recreation area, multiple campgrounds only a couple miles away. Motels and restaurants in Bradford are only 10 - 15 minutes away.

At the end of the day if CLA Nationals rotates great if not great. We'll be an alternative. Al Bean