Chickensnipper


An AR type rifle in .223 can be had for 5 or 6 hundred bucks.
A $500.00 shotgun will suffice
A $500.00 Glock does a GREAT job.

You Don't have to shoot all three !!! You can shoot only one gun and go home.

Sure you can pay more in any sport. Go to the Nationals and take a look at the small bore equipment. There aren't hardly ANY $500.00 guns on the line. You also didn't mention the cost of a good scope or the fad these days, a several hundred dollar vest.

Jeanne and I took our Kimbers to our first Nationals where Jeanne was asked " What in that hell is that ?" while another competitor looked at her Wood stocked Kimber.

Affordable for anyone to get into Silhouette?

Make a change in the rules to allow a stock gun class with a limit on scope power. That will attract HUNTERS who already have those guns and they would LOVE the practice.

It's NOT dumbing down silhouette , it just makes a class affordable for millions of hunters.
It IS practice for hunting, no matter how many times I have been publicly chastised on Steel Chickens, any REAL hunter will tell you practice makes you a better shot. Practice in a match makes you a MUCH better shot on game.

I never have and never will be a part of eliminating the unlimited class. Let the peacocks have their multi-colored race car guns, Colorful leather vests that costs hundreds of dollars and even their man buns and painted toenails.

I WOULD like to see a true HUNTER class in Silhouette. Maybe even with a different course of fire...Like the varmint Targets one range uses in Pennsylvania. Put on a true HUNTER class Nationals back east. Make a silhouette course of fire from different positions on different types of targets ( Coyote, Groundhog etc...) and if that takes off..Have the nationals there EVERY year.

Have an AR silhouette nationals back east!

Most AR shooters would LOVE that! Plus they aren't pansy s that would complain about a fellow shooters brass hitting them ...Geez.

Now I know there are some cranky , old , white men that are already getting their arguments started about the ways this won't work.

One thing for sure..." If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got."

LOW INTEREST in Silhouette.

Glen, let me get this straight. You've been to a total of how many smallbore and highpower silhouette matches so far? Despite that, you are telling everyone how those matches should be run. You also are now equating having a leather shooting vest with man buns and painted toenails in addition to insulting people on this forum about age and weight previously. I can think of a half dozen females that sometimes wear their hair in a bun and likely have or have had painted toenails who can probably shoot near double your score in either smallbore or highpower silhouette. Maybe you should try both to make you shoot better in those matches.

Does it surprise you that no one here receives your responses with any perception other than annoyance? Have you ever been to a 3-gun match? If so, have you seen the gear of the winners? They aren't shooting $500 plinker AR-15s any more than the winners at a smallbore silhouette match are shooting $150 Marlin 60s. It's ridiculous to even imply such.

Your grasp of reality related to either smallbore/highpower silhouette or 3-gun matches is completely broken. Maybe you should actually get some experience in the matches you're talking about, in addition to learning how to get your audience to actually consider your opinions, before you write more on here. I think your point of sports needing to evolve might have merit, but the way you're currently presenting it is going to do more harm than good for the chance of actually getting change to happen.

Hi all ,
Yes , I would love to see the Nationals at different locals ...
However , as others have noticed the NRA wants it at Raton ...
I love Ridgway , many others DO TOO ...
What is wrong with Ridgway , sometimes ???
A rhetorical question !
GSL.

Dear Jason

I have a couple of rifles for sale that you might like.
One is a 6.5 Blomei and a 7mm Bytme.

As for audiences... You're 100% spot on. I do manage to attract the attention of keyboard warriors.

It was the painted toenails and man bun thing that stung you wasn't it? Sorry if you have both of those. I'm sure you look just fine in that. I have no problems with either if you have them.

I am a 100% counter puncher with narrative and never take a cheap shot at an individual ...until they aim one at me.

It's the oldest trick in the book son, throw out a blanket statement and whoever it hurts most will make the most noise.

I have attended very big matches Jason . There are MANY cheaper firearms used in a 3 gun match than $500.00 and yes, a competitor can be competitive with a stock gun in a 3 gun match.

I'm sure there are a lot of shooters that can beat me and my sister can jump higher than your sister and all that...but all that still leaves is just you poking at me don't it.

Now...ANYTIME Jason you want to accept my stock rifle challenge at the Nationals we'll see what I know and you don't. We had a similar exchange last year and I challenged you to meet me at the Nationals and I advised I'd buy you whatever beverage you'd like IF you beat me. .but you didn't show. Why Jason why ? I'm just an old fat man and anyone can beat me in a rifle match, so an experienced, young lad like you should have no problems putting an old guy in his place with your shooting prowess.

You didn't show at the highpower Nationals , you didn't show at the smallbore nationals, you didn't show at the levergun nationals...heck, I'm not sure you're even a shooter.
Why Jason, why ?

I was at them all.


I tell you what son,( assuming you're a male ) I'll shoot a lever gun in highpower at the nationals next summer and you can shoot any stock gun you desire. THAT should make it much easier for you to beat me and my offer is still on ...I'll buy you the drink of your choice IF you beat me with your stock rifle.

As for opinions, I have one and it's my RIGHT to express it.

You can keep insulting, and you can keep lowering any credibility that you may have had. Like you, I've been through my share of competitions. Mind games only work on those new to competition. I'm annoyed that you're claiming to be saying what will help the matches that you have virtually no experience with but are actually hurting the image of the sport.

You already know why I wasn't at the nationals because I've stated it before and I'll state it again. I actually have a job and three kids ages 10 through 15 that have their own activities. I can go to the Iron Man and shoot both smallbore and highpower with most of the same competitors who are the nationals while only needing to take two days off work, Friday and Monday. To do the same for both smallbore and highpower nationals, I'd have to take a lot more time off work and away from my family. This year, two of my daughters had major competitions or martial arts belt tests for their sports during nationals. Those are more important to me.

I'll accept your stock rifle challenge at the Iron Man. I'll do you one better. I'll compete against you and shoot your rifle, whatever rifle you compete with, with only a few shots beforehand to get the feel of the trigger. You can practice as much as you want with it. You can even use my 1712 with a Lilja barrel and Pharr stock. If you claim that the equipment race is the problem and it takes an expensive custom rifle to be competitive, then surely that would give you a huge advantage, wouldn't it? If it wouldn't then your whole point here is complete BS and you're just spouting off about something you know virtually nothing about. If you keep insisting on making this about manhood, which actually has nothing to do with shooting ability, then surely you'd agree that the Iron Man is the right place to have this challenge. With you being retired you surely have enough time for a couple days up in Montana, right?

Please provide me a link to results from a major 3-gun championship where the winner used a $500 AR-15 in the competition. I call BS on your statement. Notice that I didn't claim you couldn't be competitive with a cheaper rifle. I said that the winners of big 3-gun matches don't use those rifles any more than winners of smallbore and highpower nationals use cheap plinking models of rifles. Of course one of the best shooters in 3-gun matches could be competitive with a stock rifle, just like the best shooters in silhouette matches can be competitive with a stock rifle. I saw Paul shoot some wonderful scores at the Washington state smallbore matches with a stock CZ 452 American. That's because it's about the shooter and not the rifle, no matter what you claim. I'll add another beverage of your choice on top of the one for the rifle challenge above if you can actually prove a major 3-gun championship was won by someone using a $500 stock AR-15, of course.

Jason, do your self the trouble and just mute the guy. All his posts then become minimized and you skip over them without ever noticing really. I only saw he was posting in this thread when you said something mentioning his name. You can choose to view his posts by clicking on them, but there is no point.

that's what I do. not worth the trouble.

If it would help my score, even by a few points.... I'd do a man bun! But my wife, who cuts my hair, says it's too thin.... not enough for a bun! And if it would help my score, even by a few points... I'd paint my toenails! Any color you want! But I'm too old and stiff to get down close enough to do them, and my wife refuses the job..... She says we have a happy life together, but painting my toenails is just too much to ask....

Heck, if it would help my score, even by a few points... I'd shoot naked! Except for a multi-colored, several hundred dollar vest, of course! Complete with silver conchos!

Life is hell for a cranky old white guy!

GSL wrote:Hi all ,
Yes , I would love to see the Nationals at different locals ...
However , as others have noticed the NRA wants it at Raton ...
I love Ridgway , many others DO TOO ...
What is wrong with Ridgway , sometimes ???
A rhetorical question !
GSL.

I was ok with the previous alternating championship.

I do wonder why the change was made.

I told you why Dave. They can set up in Raton for 2 months, get good deals on motels and they don't have to fly all over the country. Raton is a cheep place to stay.

Glen Ring,
The hunter game you allude to does actually exist. Al Foust's home range of CSLC in Williamsport, PA has a deer hunter class. Shot on the same course as the HP at the same targets and ranges. Deer hunting rifles with No external adjustments on scope and a limit of 10X. Great fun. I'd shoot it if someone else wanted to shoot also. It is hardly ever shot. I shot a 21 the last time I shot it with a .243. It is shot in conjunction with the HP Standard and HP Hunter match. CSLC is very beginner friendly.

Varn, that sounds like the Canadian hunter class way back in the early 80s. Turrets were taped before the match and all you could do is change the power. I think the limit was 6x.

Hunters weren't interested in formal shooting. Many of them would rather sit in the bar and tell each other about the running coyote they shot at 700 yards and the 800 yard elk they killed by putting their sighted in at 100 yd cross hairs right on top of his back and dropping him dead in his tracks. There is nothing we can do to change that.

Jason,

Mark Twain was a pretty sharp guy that said a lot of things which made really good sense, and still do today. In this case, I would take to heart this quote:

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Greg Sullivan

I was a little mifted by the so called survey. Nothing like making the decision and then doing a survey. I like both Ridgeway and Raton....but the Director needs a tune up. The numbers keep dropping....so why not try other locales for maybe Smallbore....the idea of keeping both High Power and smallbore championships together was a good idea that didn't work....very very few can take all their vacation times like that. It seems that when smallbore was rotated around the country at divergent dates from high power attendance to both was a whole lot better. Why not try that again for a couple of years? There are a lot of very fine smallbore ranges around the country....more than high power. I think more competitors are attracted to ranges in new areas. We were going to bid for smallbore here at Bench Rest (Missouri) but were denied because of the 'pairing' rule......and we have a great facility and were going to greatly enlarge it ....but it wasn't within the current paradigm

Varn
That sounds like a hoot to me. Anything to attract more shooters. Our silhouette Director is an IHMSA guy and is about 80 years old. He thought up an AR match to shoot steel for AR platforms only and it's more popular than any other sport on our range. Another black powder shooter started Blackpowder silhouette matches using front loaders only, round balls only and he has great crowds. I think anything that attracts shooters is worth try. We have a lot of hunters in our area ( wild hogs are actually shot on our range ) and the sight in range is usually crowded. We just need to show them that what they are doing is fun. The IHMSA guys started shooting big bore silhouette out to 500 meters with a HANDGUN. The current world champion shot a 39 or 40 with IRON sights...yep, during the internationals. Now several shooters are wanting to build a 500 meter pistol with iron sights to shoot in that match. Who would have thought that a score like that could have been shot with iron sights?
Chickensniper
My wife talked to you tonight. We welcome you to our range anytime to plink and this spring to a match. We have fun..especially on the side matches. We shoot all three guns in one day.