jask wrote:Many years ago, I was reading an interview of a member of the US Army shooting team. It was interesting to note that they handloaded all their ammo but, and a BIG BUT, they always used virgin brass. Doesn't that tell you something about the need for indexing?

No... that says it was bought by the taxpayers and they didn't care. A friend was in a Marine markmanship unit and the same there with factory match ammo and they THREW the brass away after firing it saying there was always more where that came from.

at least now (and maybe then, who knows), the GI brass gets bought up and sold to people like many of us who reload milsurp brass...I'm in that group of people, buying 7.62x51 brass...

Kind of long!
Reloading is a great hobby---I started on my own in 1969 with a Lee Loader for my 30-06. My father taught me how, but didn’t want me using his equipment (HA!) so he bought me the Lee Loader for Christmas. Here’s a chronological list of what I do. Everyone has their own system and many will argue the necessity or finer points for sure---I’d be the first to admit my system won’t fit everybody’s plan and I may have missed a step or point or two, but hope it helps. If nothing else, it will give you some ideas.
1. Punch out the primer if previously fired and put the brass in a coffee can till it’s full (a full coffee can fits in my tumbler nicely). I use an old Lee press for this with a Dillon universal decapper.
2. Tumble the brass in steel pins with water and dish soap in a rotary tumbler. Once tumbled I use a brass/media separator then rinse the brass in a sink to remove all the soap and sediment.
3. Set the brass out to dry on a towel for several days. Visually inspect for pins—if you use the correct sized pins, I’ve never had one stuck or left in the brass.
4. If you want to anneal, I think it’s best to do it here.
5. Start here with new brass. If it’s military or brass with a staked primer pocket, I remove the crimp in the primer pocket with a chamfer tool—one time only process, some people use a swage tool for this. I cut out the inside of the flash hole to remove the burrs. I believe I use a Sinclair tool for this—one time process only. Put the brass in a plastic container that has a lid---spray the brass with several shots of spray lube---I use Pam. Put on the lid, shake it well, let it sit for an hour and shake it again---this gets plenty of lube inside the case neck.
6. This step is important if you want your brass to last. Size the brass (even new brass will need the necks ironed out)---some people use neck size only dies, others use full length size dies. You will need a full length die if the brass is loaded several times or at least a shoulder bump die---I would make it simple and just use a full length die. Whatever system you use, the most important thing is to make sure the case is sized correctly for your rifle chamber. This will give you the most life out of your brass. I use a Whidden, Mo’s or RCBS chamber tool for this and also chamber the brass and test it by feel to make sure it chambers correctly. There are other methods for sure, but the best time to make sure brass chambers correctly is before it’s primed and loaded but after it’s sized and wipe off the lube---unless you want to gum up your rifle chamber. Read and understand what headspace is and how it relates to the cartridge you are loading—too much sizing will cause case separations and too little lube inside the case neck can stretch the brass when you size it---my opinion, clean well lubed (not over lubed) brass is a friend to your dies, that’s why I tumble in pins and soap. Also, I like dies with carbide neck expanders. No dirty brass goes in my good dies. If you get dents in the shoulder when you size the brass, you have too much lube on the case.
7. After I size the brass, I tumble it in corn cob or walnut media to remove the lube. With some lube types this is not necessary, with Pam I believe it is. The best way to separate the brass from the media after tumbling is with a brass/media separator, I use an RCBS. Measure the length of the brass, trim if necessary and chamfer. A good caliper is a good tool and versatile.
8. Prime the brass with the recommended primer. I like a hand priming device or a bench mounted priming device like the RCBS bench primer because I can feel for loose pockets and also feel the primer seat. I error on the side of safety---if the primer pocket feels loose, I toss the case in the brass recycle bucket.
9. Charge the case with powder. Use a recommended starting load from a manual. Many methods to use here, but it’s best to have a decent scale—some would say necessary, but I loaded ammo for many years using only Lee scoops. Powder chargers like a Redding BR-3 are nice and so is a unit like a RCBS Chargemaster. I use several, a BR-3, a Dillon charger on a 550 press, an old Belding and Mull, a Harrel’s and the RCBS Chargemaster. I’m not sure which is best, as all work better with some applications. Visually inspect the powder charge---I like having the cases with powder in a holder so they are lined up by each other and I use a flashlight to make sure they all look the same. My opinion is safety is the number one concern---always inspect and double inspect and wear safety glasses.
10. Seat the bullet to the recommended overall length in the reloading manual. You can test different seating lengths once you get comfortable with the process. Read and understand ogives and how they relate to rifle throats and seating depths. An accuracy nut is a good inexpensive tool for this. I have Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Forster, Sinclair and Dillon presses I use, the Dillon is my favorite. All have their place and advantages.
11. I test my ammo for concentricity. Many people may tell you not to bother, but I would at least check ammo periodically and initially when you get new dies. Dies can be out of spec and not reload good ammo, this is one way to trouble shoot issues. I use a Neco device to check concentricity. Instead of chambering my loaded ammo, I’ve started to use a quick test gauge like a Wilson to make sure it’s all in spec. This may save you a headache at a match. I do it with all my match ammo.
12. I don’t load when I’m in a hurry or otherwise impaired. I only have one can of powder and one type of primer open and visible. I wear safety glasses. If something doesn’t feel right I stop and inspect and sometimes discard the case or break down the loaded round. I’ve found over the years that “feel” is very important.
13. Reloading is like cooking---you can do it all with a Dutch Oven, a knife and a wood fire or have a gourmet kitchen. It might be a good idea to ask everyone on the forum what they think is necessary---equipment and process, I’m sure there is good advice out there. The only thing I can say, is that if I knew then what I know now, I would buy a Dillon 550 right off---Dillon’s customer service is great and many will tell you not to start with a progressive, but with a Dillon 550 you can use it as a single stage, you don’t need to use it as a progressive, but it’s there if you want it. A 550 will load both rifle and pistol---some Dillon loaders and other presses are limited by COAL. Start collecting and reading reloading manuals. Find a mentor. I introduced five teens and two adults to reloading this past winter---and my wife and I shot a pistol league and she is now helping me with some parts of the process….yeah!! This is my best attempt of helping you from the mistakes I’ve made. Best of luck…

Keep in mind that you have a 5 to 6 minute hold so the difference between 0.5 min and 0.8 min ammo isn't much of a big deal.

I would work up 2 different loads, one for c, p, t, and one for the rams. A 6.5mnm 105gr bullet at 2600 fps (less than 900 ft/lb) will take the first 3 animals. If you are hitting the rams with 1200 ft lbs of energy they will fall.

Keep it simple, we ain't shooting 500m bench rest. 1 min accuracy is just fine and you don't even get that with your 22.

Dave, I shoot and reload for a 308 too. I use the 155gr sierra palma bullets and 43.3 grains of varget powder for c-p-t and sierra 168gr bthp's with 46 grains of varget for rams. This might give you a starting point if you care to use any of these components, then do your load workup goin +- from here. I enjoy my reloading time almost as much as my competition time. I just wish I had some more time to load/shoot load/shoot on the weekends to get the final little bit of accuracy increase out of my loads. Just for fun mind you, they are pretty good now but MAYBE I could get a little better with more trial and error.

Also I agree with the long post above, deprime and tumble with steel pins, dawn and lemi shine. That way you don't have to separately clean the primer pocket or the inside of the necks like you do with corn cob media. I bought a 60 dollar dual barrel tumbler at harbor freight and it works great for small batches at a time. I didn't think the $270 RCBS one would be worth it, but it can do much larger batches. Anyways, have fun!

"that says it was bought by the taxpayers and they didn't care."

Unfortunately, you are correct on that one.

I was recently spotting for a guy at a highpower match where they allow shooters to shoot from the bench for fun , now before I continue let me say I myself reload and enjoy doing so , any way this fellow decided he wanted to shoot off the bench and asked his boss for a rifle to use ( worked at a gun shop ) so his boss pulled a scoped 308 off the rack and handed him a few boxes of 168gr factory ammo and off to the match he went
during practice we got sight settings for all animals and don't you know he shot a 40/40 now my question to others is was this dumb luck or how silhouette shooting was meant to be done , with a factory rifle and off the shelf ammo
now again don't get me wrong I love the sport and ammo test myself and believe working up good loads is half the fun and I could not or would not put myself through 30 rounds of factory ammo recoil but to say to someone new they have to reload to get accurate loads to shoot this game is incorrect or again maybe this was dumb luck
just saying , anyway good luck with your reloading there is good advice in the previous post on how to go about it be safe and enjoy

Hunter rifle was meant to be 'off the shelf' rifle. Factory ammo is very accurate now days. If there are good conditions, even a sloppy 1 1/2 minute rifle should get all 40 off the bench. The ram is a little over 6 minutes long and the body is just about 3 minutes high.

Wait til he comes back and is on his feet ;)

chuck

I keep track of my load data on this form. Midway doesn't make them anymore for some reason. PM me with a home address if you want a paper copy if you can't copy this one.

Another Dang 9 wrote:I keep track of my load data on this form. Midway doesn't make them anymore for some reason. PM me with a home address if you want a paper copy if you can't copy this one.0508172343-1.jpg

Tom,
Can you make a PDF and attach it?

Bob259 wrote:

Another Dang 9 wrote:I keep track of my load data on this form. Midway doesn't make them anymore for some reason. PM me with a home address if you want a paper copy if you can't copy this one.0508172343-1.jpg

Tom,
Can you make a PDF and attach it?

Hell Yeah! What he said!

I have no idea how to do that. I'm totally computer illiterate. But send me a PM with your addresses and ill mail you a copy.

Bass Pro has the MTM Handloader’s Log for sale for $29.99 on their web site.

After looking at the MTM loaders guide its the same thing I have but I never used the other pages. Just the one I posted and mine are free.