I know everyone has a favorite load based on powder, bullets, barrel length etc. I am looking for a minimum velocity that will knock down the rams using a 150 gr bullet. With reloading components hard to come by, I am having to use different powder/ bullets as I can find them, so I thought I would go the way of velocity to make adjustments to my loads.

Factory 150s at ~2,390 Usually knock them down - not always.

You can buy cast bullets over 170 grains. Gas check recommended. Worth a try, and maybe less frustrating than waiting on jacketed bullets to become available.

With a 150gr bullet 2,000 fps should work for most rams.

Hard set rams are a problem for everyone, so don't worry about them.

They are all supposed to be set per pistol rules with a 1/8" overhang off the back edge.

Or at least to the back edge of the rail.

I used to shoot a 200gr 357 mag bullet at 1050 fps and had no problems.

I now shoot at 240gr 44 mag bullet at 950 to 1060 fps and still, no problems.

Heavier is better than lighter and fast is not always the answer as fast bullets blow up on the target and don't end up spending the time "pushing" the target over.

YMMV

Dennis O.

DesertShooter asked specifically about a reliable 30-30 load.
It seems reasonable to assume that he is therefore referring to Lever Action Silhouette and not Pistol Cartridge or Smallbore.

The requirement for setting of the Ram targets for LAS is quite specific, and not quite as liberal as: -
"They are all supposed to be set per pistol rules with a 1/8" overhang off the back edge.
Or at least to the back edge of the rail."

However, LAS are set: - [4.2 Target Setting (Lever Action Only)]
To ensure that full-size rams will be knocked down with reasonable loads, they should be set so that the center of gravity works through a plane intersecting the stands approximately 1 1/4” forward of the rear edge. This can be accomplished by experimentally moving the target to the rear until it topples, and then moving it forward 1”. Stands can be designed to incorporate stops to facilitate setting the targets to the proper topple point.
Pistol Cartridge Lever Action and Smallbore Lever Action Rifle Targets are to be set full-foot and flush with the backs of their stands.

Hope that clarifies.

49er

Thanks for the clarification 49er.

The pistol rules I was talking about are the rules used for setting the rifle cartridge rams at 200 meters.

These rules come from Handgun (Pistol) Silhouette that are used in our Lever action game, I started shooting Handgun Silhouette in the 90's.

My velocities are for Rifle Cartridge 200 meter distances with both 357 mag and 44 mag.

Please excuse my un-exactness about how far back the foot hangs over the back edge of the stand.

I'm only giving him what he asked for, velocities that will work with 150 grain bullets at 200 meters.

Thanks for the information, Dennis O.

Desert Shooter, now that I'm all inspired to get "Technical"

My dear friend, Todd Spotti, who was the technical editor for many many years for IHMSA newspaper had wrote an article concerning the needed energy to knock over silhouettes. Specifically the 200 meter rams for handgun (Lever action) silhouette.

Here are some links for you, to our former club website and to the specific article I'm referring to:

http://lasc.us/

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShot14-6.htm

The website also contains a wealth of information in regards to silhouette shooting and cast bullets.

Momentum In Pound Seconds

Multiply the bullet weight in grains by the velocity at impact.
Divide the product by 225,200 ( a gravimetric Constant).

To boil it down, he is saying that you need a Ram Momentum factor of between 0.8 and 1.0

Less than 0.75 and you have a chance at losing Rams, more than 1.0 and you are overkill on the rams and your shoulder.

Desert Shooter Example: Using the great (.255 G1 BC) Speer 30 caliber 150 grain FN bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps, 200 meter velocity of 1420 fps.

150 x 1420 = 213,00 divided by 225,200 = 0.946 pound-seconds momentum.

Very comfortable reading between 0.8 and 1.0

Of course, you need to take this and the invisible elephant in the room with a grain of salt.

It does not take the bullet construction into account.

With jacketed bullets the tougher and longer the bullet, the longer the dwell time on the target. Dwell time is the amount of time the projectile is actually pushing against the target. Again, too much speed here reduces this.

With cast bullets, the hardness of the bullet is also a factor, too soft and you run the risk of leading your barrel as it strips through your rifling, too hard and they just blow up on the target, you need just right, for best results.

Anyways back to my original answer,

With a 150gr bullet 2,000 fps should work for most rams.

Hard set rams are a problem for everyone, so don't worry about them.

If in doubt, use a heaver bullet.

YMMV

Dennis O.

What did Desertshooter do?

Due to our weather (wind), lack of reloading supplies (primers) it took a long time to get back to the range. I was able to come up with a load that was around 1980 t0 2000 fps, which is just about where I wanted to be. It is 29.8 gr. of Leverevolution and Hornaday 150 gr round nose. Accuracy is good and recoil is very manageable for a 60 or 80 round match. I will be using this for Lever gun silhouette.

Sounds great, hope to see you at Jeanie's AZ match in February.

Look for me, I'm the guy taking the pictures.

Dennis