Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

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AuMiner
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Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by AuMiner »

Hi all! I shot smallbore and high power silhouette back in the 90's and early 2000's. Back then there was a large uproar in the hunting rifle class. Essentially allowing "uncommon rifles" ie. custom rifles in the hunting class. This immediately priced out many new shooters or just scared them away. I see in the 2020 rule book that the rule includes the phrase "The intent of this rule is to describe a common hunting rifle." Does this mean we have eliminated the costly and highly customized rifles from hunter class? They would be by definition "uncommon"
Looking to get back into MS after these many years.
I was very active from around 92 through 2005. Around 2002 plus or minus a year my wife's hunter class rifle was DQ'ed at a regional or state match. Sorry my memory doesn't recall which. A rifle that was allowed in all local matches we attended. Ruger 10/22, Wilson factory tapered barrel, Fajen Aristocrat stock, Jewel trigger set to 33 oz. Leupold 4.5x14 with added target turrets. It was ok for Silhouette rifle class though. As it was "custom". The phrase used at the time was "off the shelf factory sporter with minimal modifications". She got disgusted withdrew completely and never attended another match. A couple yrs later all kinds of custom guns were allowed. That's why I asked about the common hunting rifle language.
This all started with high power hunting rifle. The "identical to high power clause". High power started introducing rifles built from the ground up. $1500+ actions, $800 barrels with custom chambers, $800 stocks. Then this spread to rimfire. Many shooters no linger felt competitive with off the shelf rifles and left the sport. I tried for a while to keep up but eventually was priced out of the game too. Many things make a good or great shooter, and confidence in one's equipment is one. This works the other way too. Lack of confidence in one's gear can lead to discouragement and resentment. This happened I WAS THERE. I was there for the "Chin Guns" and all that drama too.
AuMiner
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by AuMiner »

Sorry for bothering you all. After reviewing a few more threads I see that it's still a custom gun/dollar race.
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Merlin
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by Merlin »

Sounds like you are still pissed off after waiting eleven years between posts...
"Only God can judge me." Merlin

"Merlin..Your'e a rimfire whore." God

NRA Lever Action Silhouette - You get more clang for your bang with lever action silhouette.....
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AuMiner
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by AuMiner »

11 years between posts? Wow didn't know anyone noticed. I have finally recovered from a couple of serious illnesses and thought that I would get back into shooting a sport I loved for a long time. But after asking my question I reviewed the site and saw the answers. Metallic Silhouette from its inception was supposed to be a sport that anyone can get into with minimal costs. But if it is still just another equipment race, then I don't think I need the hassle. I don't want or need the drama or criticisms.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by Grantmac »

Shoot NRL22 production class if you want a rimfire competition based on positional shooting with logical equipment rules to prevent "buying" points.

Or, honestly, shoot air rifle silhouette. Seems expensive until you realize that most decent guns come with completely usable stocks from the factory and the ammo is 1/10th the price.

I shoot SB silhouette simply because that's all we've got locally EXCEPT NRL22 which I'm setting up a production rifle to shoot.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by Merlin »

Sorry AuMiner... Certainly didn't mean to infer that you were a drama queen for your critical post regarding equipment rules after remaining pissed off over it for 11 years. My apologies.
"Only God can judge me." Merlin

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AuMiner
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by AuMiner »

I have shot many many types of NRA sanctioned matches from bullseye pistol to M1 Garands. Smallbore position to Cowboy action. Chevy team challenge (back when it was called that) and many, many, many non-sanctioned club matches. I dabbled in IDPA when it first started because it wasn't supposed to be an equipment based game. But as with many a competition these days everybody has to push the limits. It's not like I don't have the equipment either. I own several Anschutz rifles 1700's 1710's 1712's MS54.18 1700FWT's all set up for silhouette. I even placed in the top ten in the nationals a couple times. I just don't like to see people conned. New shooters that is. I personally have invited a lot of new shooters to matches only to seem them discouraged by the equipment race. In the 90's an "off the shelf factory sporter with minimal modifications" and hunter class was the typical starting point for new shooters. And most new shooters saw even the best shooters in hunting rifle shooting the same as what they brought. I remember when Remington 541S Customs dominated hunter class out of the box. And many silhouette class rifles were built up from them. Yes there were the fine guns from Anschutz on the upper end but they were stock guns, but there were not many others. A few Winchester 52's once the rimfire weight limit was raised and then a Kimber or two but they were never very prominent. Back then the only Anschutz to make the weight limit was the FWT. I remember a little Chinese number that set things on fire for a while. Then Marlin brought out their Squirrel rifle with a heavy contour non tapered barrel and a movement was made to allow it as a hunting rifle. It failed. But any rifle after that, that had a varmint or bull barrel that was not listed as such in its FACTORY description (that was the marlin's downfall) was soon allowed. Now with custom builds, I don't see how any new shooter might feel competitive with their old rabbit or squirrel gun. I haven't followed the nationals for a while but it used to attract alot of shooters. In the years I was active, I shot nationals with over 300 registered shooters. I hear (I know hearsay) that smalbore doesn't get half that in the last several years.
I've gone on long enough. Too much COVID spare time I guess. Or maybe just another has-been lamenting the good old days. Later Bye
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

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A $500 Bergara BMR, CZ 457 or Tikka T1X with a quality scope will take you to master class. Yes people spend big $ (and so did I) but I still can't shoot to my guns potential and my highest score went only up 2 animals out of 40. I would have been better served by buying 10k rounds and shoot it all up in 1 year then building a gun, but building a gun is easier and takes less effort from me.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by atomicbrh »

The scoped rifle rules have been stable for many years.
The value of the rifle and scope keep up with inflation.
A person can get their money back out of the rifle and scope when they decide to quit if they take reasonable care of it.
The real expense is entry fees, ammo, lodging and travel.
Luke Johnson has won many National Smallbore Championships with a basically off the shelf factory wood stocked rifle.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

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AuMiner wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:59 pm I personally have invited a lot of new shooters to matches only to seem them discouraged by the equipment race. ... Now with custom builds, I don't see how any new shooter might feel competitive with their old rabbit or squirrel gun.
GoldMiner, if you have shot silhouette as long as you say you have then you fully realize you can take the most incredible, high-dollar custom rifle and put it in the hands of a new shooter and they won't get any better score than they will with a quality "off the shelf" rifle.

Are top competitors willing to address any little thing that might be holding them back from their absolute best score? Absolutely. Runners will make sure they have the absolute best fitting shoes for their feet. Does that make a marathon an equipment race? Absolutely not.

Do yourself a favor and look up the scores for Luke Johnson from this past smallbore Nationals. He's a top competitor and shoots a stock Anschutz 1710 DKL(?) with the original wood stock and iron sights. He won National Champion in Standard Rifle against all those heavier, lighter-trigger, custom rifles... or did he beat the shooters instead?

Hopefully you'll understand that it's not an equipment race at all. It's a personal skill race and you should teach that to the new folks.
Allen Corneau
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by thauglor »

There is also no competitive sport that will not end up an equipment race. If you allow only factory rifles, what is to stop someone from buying 10 factory rifles to get the best shooting one? You can't control it. And new shooters will not be competing against the top players in the sport, that is why there are classes. I am not convinced the equipment cost of custom guns keeps new shooters away. PRS is growing and people are buying $2k Vudoos and $1k scopes.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by cedestech »

Reminds me of when I used to race scooters… the super sport classes had heavy factory competition in them. When you own the factory, it’s easy to stop the cam grinding machine, punch in your own numbers, spit out a “factory” cam that is a little sweeter then what comes in a stock motor off the show room floor…. I have talked to a few PRS guys and “factory” guns aren’t always “factory”.

You can’t “buy points” in silhouette. You can make it easier for you to earn points with a well shooting rifle and maybe a custom stock that fits you, you still have to stand there and shoot it.

(Have you looked at the price of 3P rifles?)

;)
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by sdwooster »

I have seen a person shoot a factory Cz and make it to master class. I have also seen a guy shoot a right handed Cz and shoot a 36, he was left handed. The bottom line is you still have to stand up and shoot it. The equipment race theory is just a cop out. Just my opinion.
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by 44 mag »

I agree 100% with what Steve Wooster said. Do shooters spend ridiculous amounts of money on the SB Hunter Rifles? Yes!!! I am one of those guys shooting a 100% custom gun!!! But also that is my choice. My scores in no way reflect the rifle I shoot because if they did I would be shooting 40x40 every match. As has been mentioned Luke Johnson a close person friend shoots a out of the box Savage/Anschutz 54 sporter. I have witnessed 3 40x40 shot with that rifle. And a few National Championships!!! It’s not the equipment when u stand on your hind legs and shoot!!! It’s the shooter!!! Is folks that shoot custom guns just like nice things!!
I feel that some folks use the “equipment race” term as a cop out to give them a reason to not shoot.

I check in most rifles at The Nationals when held in Ridgway. I handle everything from a off the shelf Savage with a BSA scope to $3000.00 rifles. That’s one reason why there is a classification system. If u are a B shooter come shoot have fun and shoot the gun u have if u are a Master then maybe u need to upgrade your equipment. I tell many shooters in lower classes don’t worry about the scores of the top shooters worry about your class and strive to get better!!
Mike Haynes
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Re: Hunting rifle class silhouette rifle rules

Post by richard »

Mike, you nailed it! Nice stuff is nice to have but does not make you a champion. I have always bought the best equipment I can afford, but never the best of the best.
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