NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

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JohnHenry
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NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by JohnHenry »

Because factory replacement barrels are almost nonexistent for Marlin and Winchester lever guns, I'm suggesting we petition the NRA to alter the rules on equipment to allow replacement barrels of the same configuration with the added caveat that the caliber can be changed as long as it is a traditional caliber now accepted.

I realize this is opening a "can of worms", but a many of the rifles we use have worn out barrels that really render them useless for accurate shooting.

This topic will surely create much discussion, and it will be interesting to see the feedback.

If there is enough support for this request, we will post a petition that shooters can sign at the Western Nationals in July. We will then submit it to the NRA for consideration.

Your thoughts?

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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by IHMSA53393 »

101% against. If you want to start an equipment race by adding custom barrels this is the way to do it.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by frankmako »

against. if your rifle does not shoot good get yourself another rifle or work your loads and practice. this will start an equipment race.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by No1_49er »

Too many worms in that can.
3.1.3.b Barrels must be original or may be relined. Original barrels re-bored to a larger caliber are allowed.

The pedant in me says that the same (as original) or larger caliber rebore/reline is available to you. For example, find a 218 Bee and take it up to 25-20, but not a 32-20 sleeved/relined to 25-20.

I would suggest that if a barrel really is beyond shooting accurately, then a reline is the acceptable/allowable option if an original cannot be found.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by hermit5 »

Absolutely do not open this Pandora’s box.Please leave the only remaining silhouette competition that hasn’t been ruined by
custom guns.The intent of this game was to bring these fine Leveraction rifles out of the safe and use them as is.The collectors can have them after we wear them out.Who knows what Henry,Ruger or Winchester may provide in the future.
The new shooter is what’s important to this game and what’s available to them.Seeing custom rifles ruins the entry level and intimidates.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by DAVIDMAGNUM »

On my lever action rifles I have added hooded front sights, Marbles tang sights , replaced two Marbles sights with MVA sights, replaced mainsprings and one trigger.
This might lead you to believe that I support the replacement barrel rule change. I do not.
I started as a B shooter and was enjoying barrel sights and off the shelf rifles.
To climb the ladder and achieve master class in two categories (flirting with master on the third) I have spent enough time and money. I don't want to be competing against cryogenically treated , air gauged, hand lapped barrels with custom chambers . Then get your custom smithy to mount the forearm and/or magazine hanger on a computer analyzed null spot. This is what it would lead to.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by cslcAl »

NO! For lots of reasons!

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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by Merlin »

"competing against cryogenically treated , air gauged, hand lapped barrels with custom chambers . Then get your custom smithy to mount the forearm and/or magazine hanger on a computer analyzed null spot."

Just as a curious voice I ask..... Does anyone think that shooting an iron sighted rifle, standing with no sling or support, would benefit to a measurable degree by having the additional equipment that David listed above? If you had a new and "average" Henry rifle straight from the factory would all this additional crap buy you one single target due to the actual increase in the rifles accuracy?

Whether you have a Rolls Royce or a Hyundai you still have to drive the danged thing.
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NRA Lever Action Silhouette - You get more clang for your bang with lever action silhouette.....
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by SqHunter »

Merlin wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:06 pm "competing against cryogenically treated , air gauged, hand lapped barrels with custom chambers . Then get your custom smithy to mount the forearm and/or magazine hanger on a computer analyzed null spot."

Just as a curious voice I ask..... Does anyone think that shooting an iron sighted rifle, standing with no sling or support, would benefit to a measurable degree by having the additional equipment that David listed above? If you had a new and "average" Henry rifle straight from the factory would all this additional crap buy you one single target due to the actual increase in the rifles accuracy?

Whether you have a Rolls Royce or a Hyundai you still have to drive the danged thing.
No, I don't think a new barrel would improve scores greatly. There are already rifles on the line that shoot MOA or close to it. But I also don't think that is the point of the question. The new barrel would make it possible to use rifles that are otherwise just decorations. And doing so would also likely mean you could get a shooter grade rifle cheaper than what it takes now, considering how expensive nice Winchesters are.

I will vote for changing the laws, even if it changes the game a little. Improvement of equipment and technique is likely the best justification for any shooting sports existence. While we are at it, lets take away all of the rules for standard class smallbore and high power as well. One of things that is killing our sport is we have ran the innovators away. Smallbore in particular should be open to multiple disciplines, we should be recruiting people from PRS and 3-P if we want to survive.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by Sporty »

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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by JohnHenry »

The idea for replacemnent barrels came about as a result of a couple of shooters discussing it at the AZ State Lever Gun Match.

Reading the comments since my post, it is apparent the majority do not want the rules changed. That's fine.

It's good to discuss these things from time to time.

Jim Luke
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by edgehit »

I’m with you Jim. I don’t understand what all the fuss is about and support a rule change. If I recall correctly, O’Neal (?) floated this proposal out at a Nationals competitor meeting about 6 years ago because he walked the firing line with a restoration gunsmith who replaces barrels on vintage rifles. O’Neal claimed the gunsmith pointed out several rifles in the racks that he personally replaced barrels. There was no mention of those owners being winners. Rifles with replaced barrels are in competition and the rule governing replaced barrels is not enforceable.

Another scenario is that a competitor could buy a professionally restored rifle. Is the barrel new, relined, or restored original? No one is checking at certification and can’t confirm it. Why? Because it doesn’t matter. Will that person win? Maybe. But not because of the barrel.

My observations and conclusions -
* there are rifles competing with replacement barrels and it’s not “buying” the owner’s way into the winner’s circle.
* The current rule is not enforceable as long as the barrel appears to be factory configuration.
* Levergun prices have sky rocketed. It’s no longer viable to purchase multiple rifles to find a “hummer”
* No one could enforce a protest on a replaced barrel that appeared “factory” original unless the competitor admitted to using a replaced barrel.
* Replaced barrels enhance shooting enjoyment and save money and time tuning a rifle.
* The current rules governing the sights and bullet configuration level the playing field and make this game a shooters game.
* An equipment race will not emerge as long as the rule change specifies the barrel matching factory

So amend the rule and give competitors some flexibility.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by IHMSA53393 »

edgehit wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:07 am I’m with you Jim. I don’t understand what all the fuss is about and support a rule change. If I recall correctly, O’Neal (?) floated this proposal out at a Nationals competitor meeting about 6 years ago because he walked the firing line with a restoration gunsmith who replaces barrels on vintage rifles. O’Neal claimed the gunsmith pointed out several rifles in the racks that he personally replaced barrels. There was no mention of those owners being winners. Rifles with replaced barrels are in competition and the rule governing replaced barrels is not enforceable.

Another scenario is that a competitor could buy a professionally restored rifle. Is the barrel new, relined, or restored original? No one is checking at certification and can’t confirm it. Why? Because it doesn’t matter. Will that person win? Maybe. But not because of the barrel.

My observations and conclusions -
* there are rifles competing with replacement barrels and it’s not “buying” the owner’s way into the winner’s circle.
* The current rule is not enforceable as long as the barrel appears to be factory configuration.
* Levergun prices have sky rocketed. It’s no longer viable to purchase multiple rifles to find a “hummer”
* No one could enforce a protest on a replaced barrel that appeared “factory” original unless the competitor admitted to using a replaced barrel.
* Replaced barrels enhance shooting enjoyment and save money and time tuning a rifle.
* The current rules governing the sights and bullet configuration level the playing field and make this game a shooters game.
* An equipment race will not emerge as long as the rule change specifies the barrel matching factory

So amend the rule and give competitors some flexibility.

So what you are saying in your post you walked the firing line at the Nationals with a gunsmith pointed out firearms that he personally installed a custom barrel.

The big question here is. Did you file a protest on those illegal rifles? If not, we can presume that you approve of breaking the established rules and cheating.

Don’t kid yourself or try to buffalo others. A rule change like this will result in an equipment race.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by No1_49er »

IHMSA53393 wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:38 am
edgehit wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:07 am If I recall correctly, O’Neal (?) floated this proposal out at a Nationals competitor meeting about 6 years ago because he walked the firing line with a restoration gunsmith who replaces barrels on vintage rifles. O’Neal claimed the gunsmith pointed out several rifles in the racks that he personally replaced barrels.
So what you are saying in your post you walked the firing line at the Nationals with a gunsmith pointed out firearms that he personally installed a custom barrel.
The big question here is. Did you file a protest on those illegal rifles? If not, we can presume that you approve of breaking the established rules and cheating.
Don’t kid yourself or try to buffalo others. A rule change like this will result in an equipment race.
No, edgehit did not say that he walked the firing line. He was relaying what O'Neal (if he recalled correctly) had said.
If there was to have been a protest at that time, it would have been incumbent on O'Neal to have instigated it.
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Re: NRA Lever Gun Rifle Rules

Post by cedestech »

I’ll be the turd in the punch bowl….

I and anyone else serious about this game are constantly cycling through rifles to get one that shoots to “our” expectations
Which is usually sub 3MOA. Once we get one that does we tend to shoot it a lot and it gets wore out. Which leads to a never ending cycle of looking for the next rifle that shoots good to replace the rifle we just put several thousand rounds through and wore out. (Again, define wore out by not meeting accuracy requirements).

It is FAR cheaper to rebarrel a rifle then continuously cycle through them, especially if you have some scrooples and won’t sell a rifle that doesn’t shoot to your expectations to someone else who you know is going to use it in this game.

If you think you are going to give a 2MOA rifle to a guy with a 6MOA hold and he is going to start winning matches you don’t approach this game or life with a realistic outlook.

If that boot fits, wear it. If it doesn’t, don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’ll bring up the point that the few users on this board can be a very vocal minority. We can disagree, it’s fine. But that doesn’t make you right. (Or me, but this subject I’ll take my chances)

The rules were written when lever guns were cheap and plentiful. They are neither now.

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