Taper

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Grantmac
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Re: Taper

Post by Grantmac »

"May not" or "is not" is the question.

How does that cylindrical section aid the shooter vs continuous taper both making weight?
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Re: Taper

Post by xpilot »

And we wonder why we are unable to attract new shooters............ who would want to jump into a group with this type of topic ?

I'm old; have enjoyed silhouette for many years and appreciate the sport we have.

How about we just shoot and stop arguing about inconsequential bullshit.
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Re: Taper

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^:)^ xpilot
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cedestech
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Re: Taper

Post by cedestech »

Merlin wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:30 pm^:)^ xpilot
X2
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Re: Taper

Post by Rem580 »

cedestech wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:37 pm
Merlin wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:30 pm^:)^ xpilot
X2
X3

..seriously. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
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Emietenkorte
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Re: Taper

Post by Emietenkorte »

xpilot wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:29 pm And we wonder why we are unable to attract new shooters............ who would want to jump into a group with this type of topic ?

I'm old; have enjoyed silhouette for many years and appreciate the sport we have.

How about we just shoot and stop arguing about inconsequential bullshit.
I would have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Not saying you're wrong, I just have a different perspective of this, being a newer silhouette shooter who hasn't been shooting silhouette for many years.

We ARE attracting new shooters! Perhaps not in the quantity that you might consider acceptable but I don't think we should minimize people who are new to this sport or the people who are introducing new people to the sport.

I don't believe clarifying the rules is "inconsequential bullshit", just because you have been shooting silhouette for many years doesn't mean everyone has been shooting it for many years. I remember when I started in silhouette I had questions just like this, luckily no one told me that my questions were "inconsequential bullshit".

PRS and NRL forums have questions like this all the time and guess what, people answer them and then they know! Everyone on those forums are willing to jump in on those topics because they want to follow the rules, or push the rules to their limit, just like this person is doing. That's how you learn, by asking questions. For example let's say we had a shooter asking this question at their first silhouette match, you think they would stick around if they were dismissed like this? ... If we discourage people from asking questions by calling their inquiries "inconsequential bullshit" we are going to have a hard time attracting new shooters!
Last edited by Emietenkorte on Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taper

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There is a huge difference between someone asking a valid question and someone who knows the answer to a question attempting to jailhouse lawyer his way into gaming the system just because he can. Bullshit semantics are bullshit semantics.
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Emietenkorte
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Re: Taper

Post by Emietenkorte »

Merlin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:40 am There is a huge difference between someone asking a valid question and someone who knows the answer to a question attempting to jailhouse lawyer his way into gaming the system just because he can. Bullshit semantics are bullshit semantics.
I don't disagree with that, but I haven't been around long enough to know who these people are so I can't make that determination... just like a lot of others, so I'll just answer their questions. I may have met them before, but their Steel Chickens handles don't always give their identity away.
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Re: Taper

Post by Grantmac »

This is the question: why are we not writing rules that are clear and easily measurable?
It's all well and good to be lenient at local shoots, what happens if a person spends the money to go to nationals with a rifle that meets one reading of the rules but not another?
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Re: Taper

Post by xpilot »

Merlin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:40 am There is a huge difference between someone asking a valid question and someone who knows the answer to a question attempting to jailhouse lawyer his way into gaming the system just because he can. Bullshit semantics are bullshit semantics.
;) Thank you for saying it better than I.....
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Re: Taper

Post by acorneau »

Grantmac wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:00 pm This is the question: why are we not writing rules that are clear and easily measurable?
Because we aren't writing the rules... the NRA is. :|
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Re: Taper

Post by 375Short »

The original post asked for consensus. We now have two pages, and growing, of competitors attempting to reach one. I think Allen, Erick and others have all made great points. I’m fairly new to Steelchickens and read back through the history of post for various reasons. A pattern is clear that the liveliest, longest and some times most heated conversations have a less than ideal rule at the core. These troublesome rules can take many forms, outdated, poorly worded, don’t meet the needs of the sport or just don’t pass the “ Why” test. Rather than being sentenced to more decades of lively debate can we fix the culprits? I know it’s managed by the NRA but surely folks as smart and tenacious as we can prevail. I mean that in a serious way, I’m willing to help with the work not just make suggestions or throw stones. Is there a person in our ranks that has a history with the rules, a history with working with the NRA and the interest in the subject? Or maybe I’m wrong and it’s all just fine as is. In that regard many already suggest we just shoot the matches. I can’t fault that, that’s exactly what I enjoy and will keep doing, with or without rule house keeping.

Now to the barrel taper question. For me it just doesn’t pass the “why” test. I think the intent of the rule is to have a barrel that tapers from breach to muzzle. The rule does a poor job of describing its intention because once we put much thought into it we get lots of different ways to interpret. My next thought will probably prompt more debate. It’s the “why” test. If a rifle must not weigh more than xx pounds and can’t have a barrel longer than xx inches what difference does it make if it’s a Bull barrel or tapered barrel, there both commonly used to hunt. We add weight to our stocks to change the balance, we change the material of stock construction to change the balance. Why do we get twisted up (besides a poorly worded rule) over the shape of the barrel. I thing we would be better served if it just said “if tapered, must be a continuous taper ending smaller at the muzzle. This taper is commonly recognized on sporting rifle barrels referred to as a “tapered” barrel.” Or other wording that with some brain storming would add clarity and pass the “why” test.
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Re: Taper

Post by No1_49er »

Some time ago, I asked where one might find the NRA Silhouette Handbook which is referenced in the NRA Silhouette Rifle Rules book. See 4. Targets, 4.1, first sentence.
The sizes for Metallic Silhouettes are NOT shown in the Rule book, hence the reference to the Handbook.
It seems that it is not readily available; it is not available from the NRA website.
I wrote Arron Farmer requesting info' on its availability. His reply, essentially, was that they'll get around to a re-write, sometime. He did, however, send me a scanned copy of the now very old Handbook.
In other words, it is not a high priority for them.
Does the NRA care. It seems not, although they are "front of the queue" when it comes to asking for match fees etc.

We now get to a state where a competitor asks a legitimate question about 'taper'. This has elicited many responses, the most recent of which is that the O.P. has offered an elegant solution i.e., a rewording of the rule, the reason for which is made clearly obvious.

375Short wrote: -
Now to the barrel taper question. For me it just doesn’t pass the “why” test. I think the intent of the rule is to have a barrel that tapers from breach to muzzle. The rule does a poor job of describing its intention because once we put much thought into it we get lots of different ways to interpret. My next thought will probably prompt more debate. It’s the “why” test. If a rifle must not weigh more than xx pounds and can’t have a barrel longer than xx inches what difference does it make if it’s a Bull barrel or tapered barrel, they're both commonly used to hunt. We add weight to our stocks to change the balance, we change the material of stock construction to change the balance. Why do we get twisted up (besides a poorly worded rule) over the shape of the barrel. I think we would be better served if it just said “if tapered, must be a continuous taper ending smaller at the muzzle. This taper is commonly recognized on sporting rifle barrels referred to as a “tapered” barrel.” Or other wording that with some brain storming would add clarity and pass the “why” test.

Will we get a rewrite? I wouldn't bank on it being any time soon.
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Re: Taper

Post by cedestech »

Image
Image

My Tony Tello cheater rifle special (that I beat Steiger with today…). It is straight for 2” then tapered 26” down to almost 1/2 OD….

Is it legal?

=))
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Re: Taper

Post by 375Short »

Looks very tapered to me. Many rifles with tapered barrels start with a cylindrical section, I’m no engineer but seems like a reasonable way to add more support to the chamber area, maybe some options if you want to cut the barrel back and choose a new chambering on down the road. It’s definitely tapered from the Breech end to the muzzle and looks like a barrel commonly recognized as a tapered barrel.
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