Rules Question Concerning Sights

[K Danz]

After just attending my first Lever Rifle Nationals, I have a question concerning lenses in rear sights. After seeing many iterations of sights being used at the Nationals this week, I decided to look at the rule book and noticed something.
Rule 3.1.3 says in part "...No rear or front sight may contain a lens, magnified or non-magnified."
Then below in rule 3.1.3 a, it says "Corrective lenses are allowed in the rear sight only".
Hmmmmmm........
So which is it?
Looks to me like there is something that needs fixed with this rule.

[cslcAl]

Ken

Lenses are allowed in the rear sight only.

Al Foust

[thauglor]

Yes the rules do contradict each other, but I can see what they are trying to clarify

3.1.3a

Rear sights may be open, receiver, or tang sights, mounted as originally intended. Corrective lenses are allowed in the rear site only. No extended mounts are permitted. The front sights must be a post or bead or a fixed non magnified round aperture. A front sight anti-glare tube which may be no longer than 1 1/8” to include any attachments and no longer than a ¾ outside diameter, may be used.

Fiber optic material may be used in or on the post or bead and may not be longer than its support blade and not to exceed 1 1/8” in length. In an antiglare tube, the fiber optic material may not be any longer than the tube or extended outside the tube. The fiber optic sights do not need to be commercially manufactured.

After just attending my first Lever Rifle Nationals, I have a question concerning lenses in rear sights. After seeing many iterations of sights being used at the Nationals this week, I decided to look at the rule book and noticed something.
Rule 3.1.3 says in part "...No rear or front sight may contain a lens, magnified or non-magnified."
Then below in rule 3.1.3 a, it says "Corrective lenses are allowed in the rear sight only".
Hmmmmmm........
So which is it?
Looks to me like there is something that needs fixed with this rule.

[JohnHenry]

The question about mgnification lens in the rear sight has been asked by a couple of shooters attending the Western Lever Gun Championship.

I called Aaron Farmer with the NRA. He said corrective lenses ONlY are allowed. Magnification lenses are NOT Allowed.

Jim Luke

[thauglor]

But Danz's remark still remains and the rules need to be clarified; all corrective lenses are magnification lenses, that is how they correct, unless it is only for astigmatism

[JohnHenry]

Auglor, I suggest you contact Aaron 'Farmer with the NRA about the sight rule discrepancy you found. It is good to bring this up on Steel Chickens, but if you want something done about it, you need to contact the rule makers--the NRA.

BTW, there is a new rule book for 2023, but I could find no changes for lever action.

Jim Luke

[No1_49er]

But Danz's remark still remains and the rules need to be clarified; all corrective lenses are magnification lenses, that is how they correct, unless it is only for astigmatism

Unless there is an optometrist present at the time of 'Rifle Certification', who could honestly determine that a "corrective lens" would only be for astigmatism?
The rule is muddied by the use of two phrases; 3.1.3 - 'No rear or front sight may contain a lens, magnified or non-magnified.', and 3.1.3(a) - 'Corrective lenses are allowed in the rear site only'.
I am of the opinion that somebody who suffers with astigmatism would ordinarily wear corrective lenses anyway and that the alignment would remain corrected with the prescribed lens/es permanently mounted on their spectacle frame.
Any ambiguity could be removed by deleting the phrase 'Corrective lenses are allowed in the rear site only'.

[Smayone]

I am far sighted and I cannot see the front sight on my rifle without corrective lenses. I had been shooting Smallbore Rifle for several years (with a scope). When a buddy suggested I should try lever action silhouette and explained I wouldn't be able to see the front sight and he advised that I could get a corrective lens for my rear sight. So I took it up and that worked great for me. Got me hooked. Then NRA changed the rules and outlawed the lens in the rear sight. An option is to buy shooters glasses but those are relatively expensive compared to the cost of the rear lens. I use 2.25 readers for reading but I can't see the targets when I wear those. Eventually I found I can see the front sight clearly and the targets too with 1.5 readers. I put those together and they worked fine with Safety Overglasses. That worked fine in the winter time but when the warm weather rolled around the readers got fogged over before I could take five shots. A lot of shooters complained about the elimination of the rear sight lens. I was so glad when NRA came around and permitted the lens again. If NRA comes back and changes the rule to eliminate the rear lens that might cut out a lot of us shooters that need a corrective lens to see the front sight. I don't perceive that I am getting any advantage hitting the targets either with the 1.5 readers or the rear lens. But it does permit me to compete on an equal basis with shooters that have normal vision.

[Smayone]

Deleting a double post.

[Bill the Lurker]

I am totally ignorant regarding lens in rear sight.
Where can I get more information especially about who manufactures such??

Thank you,
Bill

[chickenhater]

Just like Smayone, I have decent distance vision, but lack the ability to focus on anything within a few feet of my eyes. Readers, 1.75, work ok with my 39's and my intermediate prescription lens' work for the 24" and 26" pcla and cla guns, but fogging over is a problem in some conditions and the readers do make for blurry targets. I would be interested in using a corrective lens in the rear sight if it's allowed. So it would be nice if this rule were clarified, until then I'll continue with glasses and no fog cloths.
As to the poster who asked about rear sights with a lens, gehmann has some iris' with a lens in them, though you'd need to purchase an adapter to fit the redfield, williams, lyman... etc.. sights. Champions Choice sells a variety of sight iris' including gehmann.

[Bill the Lurker]

Thanks for the info Mr. Chickenhater.

[krgriggs]

At the Arizona State match this year a lot of the winners had a gehmann sight on the rear that had an iris and lens. Both adjustable.

[JohnHenry]

Kevin, at the AZ State Lever Gun Match in Feb., I also saw several shooters using Gehman rear sights with and without magnification. I have had discussions with several shooters about this issue because we are running the matches at Whittington.

Because of the ambiguous nature of the NRA rules regarding lens in the rear sight, as Match Director, I have made the decision that rear sights with magnification WILL be allowed at the 2024 Western Lever Gun/NRA Silhouette Lever Gun Matches in July. A notice of this will be posted at the match.

There will be some who object to this decision, but, after listening to the pros and cons and wrestling with this issue, I don't know how you can argue against the lens with the rules as they are written. Also, there are many shooters in lever gun who are mature citizens and their eyesight is not what it used to be. If using the lens helps them see the target, then that is more than enough reason to allow their use. We want as many people as possible to be able to participate in our sport.

When all is said and done, even with a rear sight lens, the shooter still has to be able to hold the rifle steady and follow thru on the shot. Further, magnification shows more movement. So it is not a cure all for accurate shooting.

But if you can't see the target clearly, your chances of hitting it are diminished.

Jim Luke

[dscak1]

I completely concur with Jim's comments. Dan