Rules about stock dimensions.

[MathewC]

Yeah. I can see the reason for that. I'm not trying to game the system. Just make a stock that fits me perfectly and my style of shooting.

Somewhere there's a rule that says you can't put your chin on the comb of the stock, or so I've been told. Also, that hook is not allowed.

[DavidABQ]

At the risk of piling on I too believe that the rule book needs to be reviewed and updated/clarity provided. I asked a quest on a silhouette Facebook page about a barrel I had installed on an action and if it was legal for hunter class. It was straight walled with a very short taper/step down a few inches in front of the action. I fully expected everyone to tell me that it wasn’t legal for hunter but good for standard rifle.

I opened a can of worms.

There were individuals on both sides of the argument. The definition in the rule book is lacking in describing what a tapered barrel is. Does the entire barrel need to have a uniform decrease in diameter of its entire length or does the muzzle need to be a smaller diameter than the breech and we on’t care what happens in between?

Some simple language to clarify what sort of taper is allowed simplifies a match director’s life when someone shows up with a questionable rifle.

[MathewC]

IMO, if it has any taper, it's tapered. The rule is not useful for any reason and should be removed. If you have a bull barrel, to make weight it would need to be short. To have a long barrel, you need to have a thin/tapered barrel. What advantage does either give you out to 100m? The answer is none. Some gun/ammo combination is going to shoot well, and some are not. Having a bull barrel does not give you an advantage.

My barrel is 18" and ever so slightly tapers the full length. Looking at it you might think it was a straight barrel. If it not being so cost prohibitive, then I might change it to try and get more weight out front.

[c4p6t7r188]

Post pictures and measurements for everyone.

[MathewC]

Post pictures and measurements for everyone.

I'm still designing the stock, and the measurements are all in the rulebook, so I'm not sure what you're after here.

[44 mag]

I am gonna put this one comment on this topic and that is it!!!

First off Matthew post a picture of the stock you brought to the Regional to have checked so all can see it. If anyone feels this is a “Traditional “ hunting style stock they are crazier than me!!!

2nd I was one of the people trying to get your rifle in the jig and figure it out for you for close to 2hrs after shooting a very grueling long match.
I took almost every single piece out of that jig and your rifle still didn’t fit!! It was not because it “Looked Weird” it’s was because it was NOT LEGAL!!!!!

I do agree the rule book leaves a bit to be desired these days.
It is very vague and needs some attention but we need shooters on the committee that actually know what is going on to help with the rule book not just a bunch of board members.

The one thing I can tell you.
If you come to a match that I am running and your gun is deemed illegal by me or one of my staff members. I will encourage you to file a protest (Hell I have helped shooters fill out the protest form and they were protesting a decision I made). And if the Jury agrees with me and you want to go further then we will get The National Protest Committee together and let them decide!!!
Mike Haynes

[MathewC]

Hey Mike!

Everyone was very honest and supportive so I appreciate that. I want to be clear that you and others were super nice and several people offered to loan me a rifle if I came back and had any problems. I intended to come to nationals that year but timing didn't work out with my job etc.

My gun is weird. It's literally 4 pieces of wood I got from home depot that I glued up and then shaped on one side for my hand etc. It's basically flat on the other side.

It does however meet all the rules in the rule book and believe it or not, I have been hunting with it.

If the jig was published, then I would have made it meet whatever those rules are too, but it is/was a mystery to me. The main reason I bothered to build a stock is because my rifle was 10lbs with it's OEM stock and I wanted to shoot it in hunter and standard for consistency.

My new design looks a lot more "traditional", but that will be subjective I'm sure.

For those wondering, here's the stock as it is now:

The 2x4tner.


I'll make another post with my progress on the new design soon. I hesitate to post any pics now as I don't have any desire for it to be judged on what's not completed. If you're reading this and have strong opinions about my current stock, please be respectful. Again, it meets the published rules and if you think you can just go out to your garage and easily build a stock, then I'd love to see a pic of what you came up with. I am not a wood worker. This is literally my first wood working project.

As far as simplifying the rules... I like how PRS does it. If your rifle costs under $1000 stock, then it's in this category. You want to above that and go crazy? You go into open class or whatever.

[thauglor]

Just send it off to one of the handful of silhouette builders and you will be legal

That $1000 limit in PRS sounds like the factory class that silhouette had long ago. It has been discussed here quite a bit. It doesn't stay factory very long when people are competing, so might as well publish a list of rules rifles can follow and people can tinker with.

[MathewC]

Just send it off to one of the handful of silhouette builders and you will be legal

...might as well publish a list of rules rifles can follow and people can tinker with.

I'd really rather make it myself. I've been in contact with Steve W. and Doan T. and shared my idea/design with them. Stand up guys who gave me some good advice.

And I agree on the rules.

[thauglor]

Be mindful of that "traditional" part of the stock rules if you are trying to come up with something new. I don't know how long you have been shooting silhouette.

I wouldn't mind having an open where everything goes category, but after competing in air rifle silhouette (where open really means open with basically only a weight limit), I don't see my 10m target rifle giving me that big of an advantage compared to a SB/HP silhouette stocked rifle. If such a category were to exist, I would stay with the setup I have now. As I get older, I like the fact the rifles must look like actual rifles not tacticool/PRS/sniper looking rigs.

[MathewC]

I like projects. I like building stuff. I've talked to the top stock makers and while I wouldn't consider myself in the same league as them, they certainly have the same attitude. Making stuff is cool. They have all without exception been supportive and helpful. I thank them. If I wanted one of their stocks, I would buy one. But I'm getting better at my 3d modeling and am excited to try some new manufacturing methods. When I'm getting closer to completion I will share all my ideas, tools, files etc. here is the front end of the modular design so far:



So, I started this thread to see if maybe I was missing something while doing my redesign and immediately got some expert historical facts. Thank you to those who responded!

After that it's gone way downhill.

I really want to point out a few things.

* When I build this 2x4 I was barely a AA shooter, so it's not like I was breaking some barrier there. I just wanted to shoot both hunter and standard. That's literally it.
* My rifle has a few things that are detrimental. it's got a 18in barrel, so the weight is further back. It's potentially less accurate, but surprise, I never tested ammo lots or whatever. I just shoot the cheapest shit I could find in bulk that's not crap. In this case I got some RWS for like 8cpr that seems to do okay.
* I bought the fortner gun because I think it's cool. It's my gun and I'll keep it forever and I don't really care if people don't like it or it's ugly or it's not perfect for this sport. I'm working on me. I'm not working on what other people think of me.
* I'm using a $370 scope. If someone has a list of what the top shooters use that I can go buy right now I'm all ears but since this is a dying sport it looks like I have to wait for someone to sell some rare boosted scope that I don't know what it is. I tried doing research once and gave up. The scope I have works. It's fine.
* The 1727 has a 5020 trigger. I called Anschutz and ordered springs so that I could make it 2lbs+. Surprise again, it's not nearly as nice as when I first shot the gun but my scores are getting better from practice and discipline.
* I currently only have one version of the stock so I'm stuck with it, and the rear of the stock is pretty horrible. It is what it is, so I deal with it for now.
* I've been told several times that shooting with a vest helps a lot. I don't. I should buy a vest I guess. Maybe I'll make one, who knows.

I see "The stock must be traditionally styled and may not be bent and/or twisted so as to deviate from conventional configurations such as factory rifle stocks or silhouette stocks as manufactured by Fajen, McMillan, H-S Precision, and others"

I google Fajen silhouette and Mcmillan silhouette and see this:




So, imagine you're me and you see this while trying to understand the game and build your own stock. That's traditional? Uhh, okay. All the top shooters have fiberglass stocks that are weighted just to their liking? Uhh, okay. Good for them.

If someone out there thinks I've worked some kind of advantage, I'm truly flattered. I invite you to come swap rifles with me and shoot a match. You will not be impressed/wowed/swayed or whatever.

The point is, if someone is irritated at me, they really don't know me or my gun. They should just work on themselves. I'm having fun, and my rifle meets the PUBLISHED rules.

The amount of attention this got that is unrelated to my original question is almost as stupid as the completely secret unpublished jig:

[BlackestBart]

The rulebook that was referred to in an earlier post prompted the design and ultimate manufacture of stock in the attached photo.
From start to final production was just over a year. This stock design goes through the Jig on everyone's rifle that has one. My question is - Do you have a physical disability that prevents you from using a stock of the design described in the rules and has been acceptable for use in this sport for a number of decades?

P1040274.JPG

GH_left 2.JPG

[375Short]

Not trying to derail the original post BUT, I like the the looks of the green stock in the photos. Who makes it? And how does one contact them? I like the grip , the flat bottom and the cheek piece.

[Jetmugg]

Hey Mike!

Everyone was very honest and supportive so I appreciate that. I want to be clear that you and others were super nice and several people offered to loan me a rifle if I came back and had any problems. I intended to come to nationals that year but timing didn't work out with my job etc.

My gun is weird. It's literally 4 pieces of wood I got from home depot that I glued up and then shaped on one side for my hand etc. It's basically flat on the other side.

It does however meet all the rules in the rule book and believe it or not, I have been hunting with it.

If the jig was published, then I would have made it meet whatever those rules are too, but it is/was a mystery to me. The main reason I bothered to build a stock is because my rifle was 10lbs with it's OEM stock and I wanted to shoot it in hunter and standard for consistency.

My new design looks a lot more "traditional", but that will be subjective I'm sure.

For those wondering, here's the stock as it is now:

The 2x4tner.


I'll make another post with my progress on the new design soon. I hesitate to post any pics now as I don't have any desire for it to be judged on what's not completed. If you're reading this and have strong opinions about my current stock, please be respectful. Again, it meets the published rules and if you think you can just go out to your garage and easily build a stock, then I'd love to see a pic of what you came up with. I am not a wood worker. This is literally my first wood working project.

As far as simplifying the rules... I like how PRS does it. If your rifle costs under $1000 stock, then it's in this category. You want to above that and go crazy? You go into open class or whatever.

Which specific dimension(s) were found to be out of conformance with the rulebook? (note, I'm only asking about measurable dimensions)

Steve.

[MathewC]

Which specific dimension(s) were found to be out of conformance with the rulebook? (note, I'm only asking about measurable dimensions)

Steve.

Steve, the answer is none. It meets all the published rules/measurements.

BlackestBart, is your post some kind of advertisement? If so, I'm not interested.